News: Sydenham Rail Users Meeting

17/09/2009

Transport for London

Two people from TfL and one from LOROL (the London Overground operator) happily spread the good news.

This Sunday (September 20th) Sydenham Station will be 'de-branded' by Southern and management passed to TfL/LOROL. On Monday commuters will see some cosmetic changes in signage/posters. The ticket staff will be the same, albeit in new uniforms, and the booking office times will stay the same. The difference will be that security staff in LOROL uniform will be present from 15 minutes either side of the first and last trains. TfL expect this extra visible presence will encourage single and vulnerable people to use and feel more comfortable using trains 'out of hours'.

Oyster PAYG will be accepted for all services (including Southern) from January. The next physical change will be the replacement of ticketing machines in the next 6 months. We are assured the three new TfL machines will still deliver all the traditional railway tickets besides the new Oyster based services for the new London Overground.

Within 18 months we were assured that new canopies will be installed to keep us dry plus more seating, better signage, cctv and lighting.

Six of forty four new trains are operating on the existing northern sections of London Overground. One is also now operating out of the (new) New Cross depot in proving trials of the new line sections. Track power comes on in October and more trains will join the trialling and we can expect to see these south of New Cross after January.

The new service is scheduled to start on May 23rd 2010 to coincide with the change to summer schedules on the main railway.

The TfL schedule will be 4 trains per hour from Crystal Palace and 4 from West Croydon. Hence 8 LOROL trains per hour will go to Dalston every day. This will extend later to Highbury & Islington. Four trains will also be starting from New Cross Gate so Surrey Quays and the tunnel will be handling 12 trains an hour from May. This is planned to increase to 16 when the Clapham Junction/ Denmark Hill branch is added. Travel times are 15 mins to Surrey Quays and 25 mins to Shoreditch.

Each train will have a capacity of 660 in three open plan carriages. Hence most people will be expected to stand in rush hours. The length of trains is limited by platforms at the old underground stations near the tunnel.

The audience pressed TfL on the gate capacity issue. This is currently causing problems in the evening as people queue to leave the station. TfL argue that the switch to Oyster will mean more can pass faster through each gate. Also more trains will 'spread the load'. (NB the switch to fewer but dedicated Southern trains from London Bridge may do the opposite). TfL undertook to look into this.

Southern Railway

Sunday 20th is also a big day for Southern as they begin their third franchise for our train services. The two representatives had a hard time as they confirmed two key changes under the new franchise.

From December 12th NO trains will run to/from Charing Cross. All will terminate at London Bridge. The explanation was that the new high speed service from Ashford to St Pancras has caused SouthEastern to completely re-jig their local schedule and Southern has been squeezed out of Charing Cross. There was no clear answer why the switch of many mainline services AWAY from Charing Cross reduces capacity and hence Southern's presence. It was noted that SouthEastern were INCREASING local services into Charing Cross. Slots presumably taken from Southern. The only inadequate response was that these decisions were made prior to the new franchise by the Department for Transport. Which begs the question on what basis our needs were traded out for others. As a government department this makes it a political issue. One for our MP?

Great concern was expressed that this would hit Sydenham hard and had employment and safety issues. Many musicians and other other people working in the West End entertainment industry rely on a direct service to convey large musical instruments and women felt particulary vulnerable making the difficult change at London Bridge late at night. The decision to cease Charing Cross trains was accepted by no one in the audience. This is going to be a hot campaign issue.

The second disaster will be the reduction to coincide with the introduction of London Overground services from 6 to 4 in the evening rush hour. Southern counter that these will be more evenly spaced and be local trains (not terminating at Guildford etc) giving more room for local passengers. However this will only aggravate the gate issue at Sydenham (see above).

Southern promise the current 6 trains/hour will be maintained in the morning rush hour and as these will start locally they will be less full on arrival at Sydenham. They were unable to explain why they can run 6 in a morning but only 4 at night.

Good news is that our platforms will be lenghthen to 10 carriages by 2012 and 12 sometime later. Bad news is that after October 2012 London Bridge terminus platforms will be reduced from 9 to 6 (possibly less). This is to enable works for expanding Thameslink which will probably last to post 2015. Hence the outlook for central London direct services looks like getting worse rather than better. Post 2015 some Thameslink trains may call at Sydenham giving better links to St Pancras (for Eurostar) and other places north.

One positive suggestion from the audience was for Southern to stop some semi-fast trains from London Bridge at New Cross enabling people to switch to London Overground. They undertook to look into this.

Good News is that Southern will be running morning peak services to Victoria (currently only day/evening). No services Sunday but the enhanced London Overground will give frequent connections to Crystal Palace for Victoria trains. Concern was expressed that we would be losing outbound south London connections as trains were being made more local. Southern, again countered that there would be more trains to give connections at West Croydon and Norwood Junction. In particular there would be more Gatwick services from Norwood Junction.

Sydenham Society

The meeting was organised by the transport committee of the Sydenham Society and characteristically enjoyable chaired by Barry Milton. The TfL/Southern people were pleasantly surprised at meeting such a strong and articulate audience. So big thanks to the SydSoc for grappling with this issue and informing people. The question is whether the Society, together with the Forest Hill Society and others, can successfully campaign for improving our travel lot.

Links

• Forum discussion
• TfL London Overground Project
• LOROL (TfL operator)
• Southern Railway
• Sydenham Society