Man with 2 dogs off lead

The place for serious discussion, announcements and breaking news about Sydenham
tonyhorse
Posts: 11
Joined: 2 Apr 2016 07:19

Man with 2 dogs off lead

Post by tonyhorse »

Hi,

Just wanted some advice on what to do about this guy (looks 60+) who I have seen twice walking down Sydenham Road with 2 dogs, one which looks like a pitbull, without any sort of lead on the doga. It is an accident waiting to happen with a small child.

If I see him again I was going to take his picture, have a firm word with him, possible follow him to his address and then report him to police / council.

Anyone got any suggestions? The guy must be slightly mental to have a pitbull off the lead.
Rachael
Posts: 2450
Joined: 23 Jan 2010 13:42
Location: Sydenham / Forest Hill Intersection

Re: Man with 2 dogs off lead

Post by Rachael »

Please don't assume that a dog that looks like a pit bull is one, or that even if it is, that it is dangerous. Breed specific legislation has led to a lot of misinformation about these dogs.

There is every chance these are perfectly well behaved pet dogs with no aggression in them whatsoever. I have a dog and meet many other dogs every day. Lots of them could be mistaken for these banned types, but are different legal breeds or mixed breed. And all are lovely dogs with responsible owners.


It is not illegal to walk your dog off-lead.
gurka
Posts: 62
Joined: 21 Jul 2009 15:05
Location: South East

Re: Man with 2 dogs off lead

Post by gurka »

Sorry tonyhorse but I am with Racheal on this one, not all dogs that look dangerous are, I do understand your concern as around Lower Sydenham there are some younger gen people with pitbulls that do have them off the leads but you certainly cannot tarnish all dog owners and dogs with the same brush.
tonyhorse
Posts: 11
Joined: 2 Apr 2016 07:19

Re: Man with 2 dogs off lead

Post by tonyhorse »

Thanks but I think parents with kids would be concerned seeing 2 dogs several metres away from the owner. There have been several incidents with off-lead dogs in the Newlands Park area. Next time I will be having a word with this guy and taking a picture of the dogs.
MagmaTimes
Posts: 85
Joined: 24 Nov 2015 10:56
Location: Sydenham

Re: Man with 2 dogs off lead

Post by MagmaTimes »

tonyhorse wrote:
If I see him again I was going to take his picture, have a firm word with him, possible follow him to his address and then report him to police / council.

Anyone got any suggestions?
I can imagine this plan going down like the proverbial shit sandwich. That said, if I was out walking with my 6-year old, I think I'd cross the road if I came across this chap and his canine companions.
Rachael
Posts: 2450
Joined: 23 Jan 2010 13:42
Location: Sydenham / Forest Hill Intersection

Re: Man with 2 dogs off lead

Post by Rachael »

tonyhorse wrote:Thanks but I think parents with kids would be concerned seeing 2 dogs several metres away from the owner. There have been several incidents with off-lead dogs in the Newlands Park area. Next time I will be having a word with this guy and taking a picture of the dogs.
Okay, but on what grounds? It's highly unlikely this is a banned breed dog, and walking them off-lead is not illegal.

If the dogs are showing signs of worrying behaviour, that's one thing. But have a look around - you'll see lots of dogs walking off lead a distance from their owners. You probably just haven't noticed because they don't look like 'dangerous' dogs. A dog that walks well off-lead is probably a very well trained dog.

My dog has been bitten twice by other dogs. One was a Beagle. The other was a Jack Russell. Off-lead dogs CAN be a problem. The problem is, it's often not the dogs you think.
EUSSR
Posts: 77
Joined: 16 May 2013 14:40

Re: Man with 2 dogs off lead

Post by EUSSR »

Dangerous dog or not a quick Google will show you that as the law stands, in pedestrian area unless there are signs saying otherwise, all dogs must be on a lead.

I wouldnt advise approaching this person, as in most cases the sort of person that has this sort of dog is usually as dangerous as the dog.
Sydenham Syd
Posts: 261
Joined: 30 May 2014 09:59
Location: Europe, until otherwise instructed

Re: Man with 2 dogs off lead

Post by Sydenham Syd »

EUSSR wrote:Dangerous dog or not a quick Google will show you that as the law stands, in pedestrian area unless there are signs saying otherwise, all dogs must be on a lead.

I wouldnt advise approaching this person, as in most cases the sort of person that has this sort of dog is usually as dangerous as the dog.
I agree. Dangerous or not they should be on a lead.

To Rachael's point, that is the issue in a nutshell - one is not sure what sort of dog it is, or if it is dangerous or not so therefore they should be on a lead!
Rachael
Posts: 2450
Joined: 23 Jan 2010 13:42
Location: Sydenham / Forest Hill Intersection

Re: Man with 2 dogs off lead

Post by Rachael »

EUSSR wrote:Dangerous dog or not a quick Google will show you that as the law stands, in pedestrian area unless there are signs saying otherwise, all dogs must be on a lead.

I wouldnt advise approaching this person, as in most cases the sort of person that has this sort of dog is usually as dangerous as the dog.
I've just had a look at Lewisham's website and you are right. This is not, as far as I know, a UK- wide law, so maybe councils have the authority to specify where and when dogs must be on leads in each borough.

http://www.lewisham.gov.uk/myservices/e ... e-law.aspx

However, I'd say about 40% of people I see with their dogs (walking past my house on their way to and from Mayow Park) do not have their dogs on leads, and I'd bet the majority of them don't know they are breaking the law.

Jumping to the conclusion that this poor bloke out walking his dogs is 'dangerous' because he's doing something illegal that many other people do (walking dogs off lead) and on the basis of the OP thinking his dog looks like a type of dog that is sometimes dangerous - that's a huge leap and based on so many assumptions on very little information.
mosy
Posts: 4103
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 20:28
Location: London

Re: Man with 2 dogs off lead

Post by mosy »

Some dogs scare me, especially big powerful ones that could easily pull an owner with them even if on a lead. (I was bitten by an alsatian as a young teen).

If an approach is made, it could be just a friendly word saying you worry in case the dogs might run into the road, say. If the owner is friendly then the dogs probably might be and you could then talk further, or if given short shrift or ignored then probably better to give him and dogs a very wide berth methinks.
Sydenham Syd
Posts: 261
Joined: 30 May 2014 09:59
Location: Europe, until otherwise instructed

Re: Man with 2 dogs off lead

Post by Sydenham Syd »

Rachael wrote:
EUSSR wrote:Dangerous dog or not a quick Google will show you that as the law stands, in pedestrian area unless there are signs saying otherwise, all dogs must be on a lead.

I wouldnt advise approaching this person, as in most cases the sort of person that has this sort of dog is usually as dangerous as the dog.
I've just had a look at Lewisham's website and you are right. This is not, as far as I know, a UK- wide law, so maybe councils have the authority to specify where and when dogs must be on leads in each borough.

http://www.lewisham.gov.uk/myservices/e ... e-law.aspx

However, I'd say about 40% of people I see with their dogs (walking past my house on their way to and from Mayow Park) do not have their dogs on leads, and I'd bet the majority of them don't know they are breaking the law.

Jumping to the conclusion that this poor bloke out walking his dogs is 'dangerous' because he's doing something illegal that many other people do (walking dogs off lead) and on the basis of the OP thinking his dog looks like a type of dog that is sometimes dangerous - that's a huge leap and based on so many assumptions on very little information.

But what other conclusion can you jump to? It seems here that he has a couple of threatening-looking dogs wandering around unleashed. I don't think this chap has a lab and a retriever or a poodle and a spaniel. The original post talked about one of the dogs that looked like a bull terrier, which quite clearly needs to be stuck on a lead, thus someone should let him know.

I don't think there is any conclusion jumping.
Rachael
Posts: 2450
Joined: 23 Jan 2010 13:42
Location: Sydenham / Forest Hill Intersection

Re: Man with 2 dogs off lead

Post by Rachael »

The problem is that we have no idea what sort of dogs they were, and the breed-specific legislation, which most dog experts agree is nonsense, makes people believe that a certain type of dog is ALWAYS dangerous. That's just not the case. And there are a lot of breeds that look a bit like pit bulls to the uninitiated but are nothing of the sort. Pittys and similar dogs make fabulous pets in the right hands. Who is to say this man's hands are the wrong ones?

The OP did not say the dogs were behaving in a threatening way. He said one looked a bit like a certain breed. From that the conclusion has been drawn almost immediately that both the dog and the owner are dangerous.

You are right, no one would think my daft spaniel is dangerous. Or the Beagle that bit him. Or the Jack Russell. The many bull terrier and bulldogs types that he LOVES to rough-and-tumble with in the park have never so much as curled a lip at him, and he can be a right pain the arse. So... yes, conclusions are being jumped to here on the basis of very little information and a lot of misinformation.
Last edited by Rachael on 22 Mar 2017 14:16, edited 1 time in total.
SteveG85
Posts: 39
Joined: 26 Aug 2014 16:41
Location: SE26

Re: Man with 2 dogs off lead

Post by SteveG85 »

Speaking as someone who loves dogs and grew up with several family pets I find it difficult to believe that people who walk their dogs around Sydenham without leads don't know that it's illegal. Regardless it's no excuse as they should make it their business to know how the law applies to their pets.

Whilst I accept it is possible these people don't know the law I flat out refuse to believe that they don't know that walking their dog (any breed) on the pavement without a lead makes some others in the community nervous. Particularly elderly people and parents with young kids. They disregard the rules, place themselves above others and it is antisocial behaviour.
tonyhorse
Posts: 11
Joined: 2 Apr 2016 07:19

Re: Man with 2 dogs off lead

Post by tonyhorse »

Dog Control Orders

An offence under the Dog Control Order can result in an on-the-spot £75 fine and fines of up to £1,000. Offences include:

1. Fouling of land by dogs and failing to remove dog faeces

All public footpaths and highways, including tree bases, grass verges and gutters.
All parks, gardens and open spaces where dogs are permitted.

2. Not keeping a dog on a lead

All public footpaths and highways.
Nature reserves: Burnt Ash Pond, Grove Park, Sydenham Cottages.
Cemeteries and crematoriums.

etc.
Rachael
Posts: 2450
Joined: 23 Jan 2010 13:42
Location: Sydenham / Forest Hill Intersection

Re: Man with 2 dogs off lead

Post by Rachael »

Yes, that's what I posted on my last comment and I stand corrected on that. So you are right he should have the dogs on a lead.

It remains to be proved that the dogs are either dangerous or on a banned list, though.
bjc
Posts: 17
Joined: 28 Jan 2011 10:46
Location: Sydenham

Re: Man with 2 dogs off lead

Post by bjc »

All dogs off lead in this environment are a hazard.

Hence the legislation from the Road Traffic Act 1988
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/27

Which has then been represented in local authority orders.
tonyhorse
Posts: 11
Joined: 2 Apr 2016 07:19

Re: Man with 2 dogs off lead

Post by tonyhorse »

Irrespective of whether you love or hate dogs, they need to be on a lead if they are walking the streets. People who have a dog off-lead risk causing danger to others, especially since the dog's personality, breed cannot be determined. Therefore they should be reported, which was my original point.

The aim is to make Sydenham a safer place for everyone - having an (unpredictable) animal off-lead in the presence of vulnerable people like kids is just mindless and needs to be stopped.
Rachael
Posts: 2450
Joined: 23 Jan 2010 13:42
Location: Sydenham / Forest Hill Intersection

Re: Man with 2 dogs off lead

Post by Rachael »

In the light of this, can I assume concerned citizens of Sydenham will be pointing out the law to ALL dog owners flouting it, irrespective of whether Fido is a Teacup Yorkie or a Bull Mastiff? :wink:

Rather glad right now I always have mine on a lead. He's a liability to himself rather than anyone else, daft animal, but that does mean I have to take responsibility for his daftness. 8)
tonyhorse
Posts: 11
Joined: 2 Apr 2016 07:19

Re: Man with 2 dogs off lead

Post by tonyhorse »

I'll ask the council for guidance. Maybe they can put up material in the area to warn irresponsible dog owners of fines if they do not have their dogs on a lead.
LeliB
Posts: 2
Joined: 9 Oct 2015 18:45
Location: Sydenham

Re: Man with 2 dogs off lead

Post by LeliB »

A man who fits that description regularly allows his dogs to run into Mayow Park before him, fouling in the grass and making no attempt to pick it up. He sees what they are doing and turns a blind eye.

I have also seen these dogs regularly pester people sitting in the benches outside for food , this includes small children.

I have no idea if the dogs are aggressive/ placid but I do think this guy needs to be spoken to, it seems he's not respecting the local area.
Post Reply