Noise in Lower Syd last night

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broken_shaman
Posts: 111
Joined: 20 Nov 2013 21:08
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Noise in Lower Syd last night

Post by broken_shaman »

Lewisham's noise 'service' is truly appalling. Bad enough that it's only open office hours, but you struggle to get a response even when they are working. So, basically, you can have huge parties in Lewisham at any time of the week or day and the most that will probably happen is you might get a letter through the post, particularly if it's not done regularly.

mosy
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007 20:28
Location: London

Re: Noise in Lower Syd last night

Post by mosy »

I'm struggling to think what council workers could do effectively even if there were a 24/7 flying squad if a complaint is of a one-off party or concert, assuming besuited with a clip board and no affray or violence or otherwise criminal act is in play and assuming easily outnumbered by revellers. Perhaps they don't know either hence dealing only with persistent noise. What could they be expected to do for one-offs?

bensonby
Posts: 1650
Joined: 18 Jun 2008 12:28
Location: Kent

Re: Noise in Lower Syd last night

Post by bensonby »

mosy wrote:I'm struggling to think what council workers could do effectively even if there were a 24/7 flying squad if a complaint is of a one-off party or concert, assuming besuited with a clip board and no affray or violence or otherwise criminal act is in play and assuming easily outnumbered by revellers. Perhaps they don't know either hence dealing only with persistent noise. What could they be expected to do for one-offs?
I would have thought it was relatively straightforward:

1. Turn up and tell them to turn it down
2. If they refuse seize their equipment.
3. If there is a threat of a breach of the peace in doing (2) then call the police to prevent said breach
4. Initiate a prosecution where appropriate

mosy
Posts: 4032
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 20:28
Location: London

Re: Noise in Lower Syd last night

Post by mosy »

bensonby wrote:
mosy wrote:I'm struggling to think what council workers could do effectively even if there were a 24/7 flying squad if a complaint is of a one-off party or concert, assuming besuited with a clip board and no affray or violence or otherwise criminal act is in play and assuming easily outnumbered by revellers. Perhaps they don't know either hence dealing only with persistent noise. What could they be expected to do for one-offs?
I would have thought it was relatively straightforward:

1. Turn up and tell them to turn it down
2. If they refuse seize their equipment.
3. If there is a threat of a breach of the peace in doing (2) then call the police to prevent said breach
4. Initiate a prosecution where appropriate
I wouldn't have thought (2) was permissible. Wouldn't council officers need a warrant or some legal authorisation to enter private premises uninvited and tamper with or seize equipment? <- That's a serious question since police need reasonable suspicion of crime (or whatever it's called) or a warrant, and bailiffs need a court order to gain or force access don't they? What empowers a council worker?

Nevertheless, thank you for confirming that something could be done if the will was there.

John H
Posts: 278
Joined: 17 Aug 2017 18:15
Location: Sydenham

Re: Noise in Lower Syd last night

Post by John H »

Many years ago Lewisham did operate a night time "noisy party patrol". It is one of the areas that has been cut (out) but it is worth remembering this unit was subject to a tragedy in its later days when an officer was killed driving out to an incident. His death took place outside Livesey Hall.

bensonby
Posts: 1650
Joined: 18 Jun 2008 12:28
Location: Kent

Re: Noise in Lower Syd last night

Post by bensonby »

mosy wrote:
bensonby wrote:
mosy wrote:I'm struggling to think what council workers could do effectively even if there were a 24/7 flying squad if a complaint is of a one-off party or concert, assuming besuited with a clip board and no affray or violence or otherwise criminal act is in play and assuming easily outnumbered by revellers. Perhaps they don't know either hence dealing only with persistent noise. What could they be expected to do for one-offs?
I would have thought it was relatively straightforward:

1. Turn up and tell them to turn it down
2. If they refuse seize their equipment.
3. If there is a threat of a breach of the peace in doing (2) then call the police to prevent said breach
4. Initiate a prosecution where appropriate
I wouldn't have thought (2) was permissible. Wouldn't council officers need a warrant or some legal authorisation to enter private premises uninvited and tamper with or seize equipment? <- That's a serious question since police need reasonable suspicion of crime (or whatever it's called) or a warrant, and bailiffs need a court order to gain or force access don't they? What empowers a council worker?

Nevertheless, thank you for confirming that something could be done if the will was there.
I’m not an expert on noise abatement, but my understanding is that noise abatement officers have certain statutory powers to enter premises and seize equipment. Quite how these powers operate I’m not sure.

mosy
Posts: 4032
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 20:28
Location: London

Re: Noise in Lower Syd last night

Post by mosy »

bensonby wrote:...[clip]...

I’m not an expert on noise abatement, but my understanding is that noise abatement [council] officers have certain statutory powers to enter premises and seize equipment. Quite how these powers operate I’m not sure.
Thanks again. Maybe Chris Best might be able to follow up and advise us on what noise abatement legal enforcement powers have been bestowed by statute or by-law on councils (its workers/agents). Granted that's aside from whether funds are available or allocated by councils to act on such powers, so just wanting to know what powers there are, immediate and consequential.

biscuitman1978
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Location: Chislehurst; previously Sydenham

Noise in Lower Syd last night

Post by biscuitman1978 »

mosy wrote:Thanks again. Maybe Chris Best might be able to follow up and advise us on what noise abatement legal enforcement powers have been bestowed by statute or by-law on councils (its workers/agents). Granted that's aside from whether funds are available or allocated by councils to act on such powers, so just wanting to know what powers there are, immediate and consequential.
Have you seen this page on Lewisham Council's website? https://www.lewisham.gov.uk/myservices/ ... igate.aspx

It clearly explains the circumstances in which the Council will take action and the powers it will use.

mosy
Posts: 4032
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 20:28
Location: London

Re: Noise in Lower Syd last night

Post by mosy »

Thanks for the Lewisham council link, biscuitman1978, which sets out their position clearly. Not much else to say really.

John H
Posts: 278
Joined: 17 Aug 2017 18:15
Location: Sydenham

Re: Noise in Lower Syd last night

Post by John H »

Knighton Park Road's turn again this weekend. The second weekend in a row. The same house! A "professional" organiser of bothies. None of the people attending arrived with bottles... All of them were seen parading up and down with alcoholic drinks... which had to be bought, illegally, at the house.

I have the details of the oranisers and photographs of the illegally parked cars. I was threatened when I took those pictures. When will it end? So far this has been going on since yesterday afternoon and still it continues (Sunday afternoon). Through the night hundreds of people swarmed up and down the street including prostitutes openly plying for trade, drug dealers standing in gateways. Cars illegally parked creating a very real and present danger to residents.

It appears numerous complaints were made to the Police and Local Authority (I was not one of them). Nothing whatsoever was done. This is illegal use of domestic premises to run events. The premises cannot house the participants. Most of the "party" is on the street.

John H
Posts: 278
Joined: 17 Aug 2017 18:15
Location: Sydenham

Re: Noise in Lower Syd last night

Post by John H »

17:14 Sunday. Police now in attendance and they appear to be closing this thing down. People being sent packing. Lots of arguments in the street as the revellers try to extricate their cars... The Policemen must have courage. Two against hundreds!

John H
Posts: 278
Joined: 17 Aug 2017 18:15
Location: Sydenham

Re: Noise in Lower Syd last night

Post by John H »

A footnote. Lewisham Council can, if they choose, serve a noise abatement order on any domestic premises. They do not have to prove their case. The person on the receiving end has to go to court and seek removal of the order... which costs. Lewisham have, in the past, misused this provision in the law. The authority is supposed to satisfy itself that there is probable good cause... but nothing in the act says what that means.

John H
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Joined: 17 Aug 2017 18:15
Location: Sydenham

Re: Noise in Lower Syd last night

Post by John H »

The revellers, in the street are now gone. So too are the police. The organisers' vehicles remain blocking the entrance to Hillmore Grove. I presume they have to pack up their gear. Having done that sort of work myself I would expect striking their show to take no more than, at the very most, one hour.

milton
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Joined: 27 Feb 2018 11:33
Location: newbury

Re: Noise in Lower Syd last night

Post by milton »

Its just weekend revels, people unwinding in the summer after a weeks hard work. Leave them be, it's a diverse multicultural city and different cultures and the entertainment they bring should be embraced.
I'd have gone along and joined in, especially if the drink was cheap. Can't beat a drink and a jolly at weekends.
People who can't sleep should get some sleeping pills in or go away for the weekend; miserable sods who can't enjoy our wonderful diversity.

John H
Posts: 278
Joined: 17 Aug 2017 18:15
Location: Sydenham

Re: Noise in Lower Syd last night

Post by John H »

milton wrote:Its just weekend revels, people unwinding in the summer after a weeks hard work. Leave them be, it's a diverse multicultural city and different cultures and the entertainment they bring should be embraced.
I'd have gone along and joined in, especially if the drink was cheap. Can't beat a drink and a jolly at weekends.
People who can't sleep should get some sleeping pills in or go away for the weekend; miserable sods who can't enjoy our wonderful diversity.
but you are in Newbury. Says it all.

People are entitled to be able to enjoy a peaceful night's rest in a quiet residential street. If you want to go to a night club then do so. If you want to attend a rave then do so in a place remote from residential properties. We pay a very heavy price for the privilege of living in this street. These people are free-loaders.

Incidentally I have established the organisers are operating under a non-existent company name, with a non-existent website. This is clearly an organised crime outfit. It is neither reasonable nor lawful to hold an event for several hundred people in a modest four bedroom house.

Sydenham Syd
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Re: Noise in Lower Syd last night

Post by Sydenham Syd »

milton wrote:Its just weekend revels, people unwinding in the summer after a weeks hard work. Leave them be, it's a diverse multicultural city and different cultures and the entertainment they bring should be embraced.
I'd have gone along and joined in, especially if the drink was cheap. Can't beat a drink and a jolly at weekends.
People who can't sleep should get some sleeping pills in or go away for the weekend; miserable sods who can't enjoy our wonderful diversity.
I think you are missing the point here....it's not about being miserable and not enjoying a party, but about thumping tunes between midnight on Saturday to 5pm Sunday with the whole road chocked with cars playing their own tunes and people using the road and people's gardens as a place to urinate. I came out yesterday morning and found four beer bottles, two joint butts, a half eaten sandwich and some chocolate wrappers just chucked over my wall.

At 5am I had got used to the beats, but got woken up by two screaming girls chasing a car down the road, and then about 50 people out on the road outside number 51, with bouncers and security on the door. This was 12 hours before it finished...

The guy has been served a writ by the council, on behalf of the elderly lady that lives next door - he had assembled a tarpaulin over his garden and the DJ out the back - several young families live over the road, behind in the garden.

It's not about being miserable, but the fact that this is a private house, charging on the door and for drinks on an unlicensed premises for an 18 hour or so party.

Everyone has parties, but generally in private and for their guests and respect the fact that being anti-social is exactly that. This guy did this three times last year, and the road seems powerless to stop it, even though virtually everyone objected. The flyers stated that 'ladies allowed in free from 2am'. It's not the Ministry of Sound or the Zanzibar, but a terraced house on a residential road...

milton
Posts: 29
Joined: 27 Feb 2018 11:33
Location: newbury

Re: Noise in Lower Syd last night

Post by milton »

but you are in Newbury. Says it all.
you should be here on race days. Can't move for discarded champers bots and lost stillettos heels.

anyway I was in Sydenham, but I got out when diversity was coming into fashion.

I'm perverse, not diverse. :lol:

I had had enough when at 2.am I could feel not hear the bass through the floor from 200yards away. I lost jobs through lack of sleep. One crew in Maitland road would, on a summer evening drag huge speakers out into the road and party in Alexander Rec from 3pm to the early hours.

I miss being in a vibrant diverse environment, but its all yours.Enjoy.
Last edited by milton on 20 Aug 2018 14:14, edited 1 time in total.

Holaquease
Posts: 55
Joined: 2 Sep 2016 22:13

Re: Noise in Lower Syd last night

Post by Holaquease »

milton wrote:
but you are in Newbury. Says it all.
you should be here on race days. Can't move for discarded champers bots and lost stillettos heels.

anyway I was in Sydenham, but I got out when diversity was coming into fashion.

I'm perverse, not diverse. :lol:
Eh?

milton
Posts: 29
Joined: 27 Feb 2018 11:33
Location: newbury

Re: Noise in Lower Syd last night

Post by milton »

Wot?

John H
Posts: 278
Joined: 17 Aug 2017 18:15
Location: Sydenham

Re: Noise in Lower Syd last night

Post by John H »

Sydenham Syd wrote:
milton wrote:Its just weekend revels, people unwinding in the summer after a weeks hard work. Leave them be, it's a diverse multicultural city and different cultures and the entertainment they bring should be embraced.
I'd have gone along and joined in, especially if the drink was cheap. Can't beat a drink and a jolly at weekends.
People who can't sleep should get some sleeping pills in or go away for the weekend; miserable sods who can't enjoy our wonderful diversity.
I think you are missing the point here....it's not about being miserable and not enjoying a party, but about thumping tunes between midnight on Saturday to 5pm Sunday with the whole road chocked with cars playing their own tunes and people using the road and people's gardens as a place to urinate. I came out yesterday morning and found four beer bottles, two joint butts, a half eaten sandwich and some chocolate wrappers just chucked over my wall.

At 5am I had got used to the beats, but got woken up by two screaming girls chasing a car down the road, and then about 50 people out on the road outside number 51, with bouncers and security on the door. This was 12 hours before it finished...

The guy has been served a writ by the council, on behalf of the elderly lady that lives next door - he had assembled a tarpaulin over his garden and the DJ out the back - several young families live over the road, behind in the garden.

It's not about being miserable, but the fact that this is a private house, charging on the door and for drinks on an unlicensed premises for an 18 hour or so party.

Everyone has parties, but generally in private and for their guests and respect the fact that being anti-social is exactly that. This guy did this three times last year, and the road seems powerless to stop it, even though virtually everyone objected. The flyers stated that 'ladies allowed in free from 2am'. It's not the Ministry of Sound or the Zanzibar, but a terraced house on a residential road...
Points well made... However there were loads of screaming girls... some being paid to be on the street with their pimp stationed at a strategic point. I was approached at my own front gate by some.

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