The Drowning Place - Beckenham Place Park

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John H
Posts: 278
Joined: 17 Aug 2017 18:15
Location: Sydenham

Re: The Drowning Place - Beckenham Place Park

Post by John H »

Rachael wrote:
7 Aug 2019 07:05
I asked before but you didn’t answer: why do you say the wetlands are not going ahead? Is this official? It was my understanding that would be the last part of the project to be carried out. As you’ll have noticed, there are still some works going on around the park.
I have no doubt they realised that the proposed wetlands would create an even more hazardous risk to the public. They have also spent double the proposed budget on the pond... In Local Government the process is quite simple (I worked for many years in Local Government). You split any project into phases...

Phase 1... What the Officers want

Phase 2... What the Elected Members want.

Phase 3... What the Public want or need.

It is rare for any project to proceed beyond Phase 1.

Rachael
Posts: 2447
Joined: 23 Jan 2010 13:42
Location: Sydenham / Forest Hill Intersection

Re: The Drowning Place - Beckenham Place Park

Post by Rachael »

The infrastructure for the wet woodland is all there - the outflow from the lake was installed some time ago. So the money has been spent already. I don’t see how there would be any safety issues with the wet woodland - it’s very shallow. It was always going to be formed after the lake was filled and settled so I wouldn't be sure it’s not going to happen.

John H
Posts: 278
Joined: 17 Aug 2017 18:15
Location: Sydenham

Re: The Drowning Place - Beckenham Place Park

Post by John H »

Rachael wrote:
7 Aug 2019 14:23
The infrastructure for the wet woodland is all there - the outflow from the lake was installed some time ago. So the money has been spent already. I don’t see how there would be any safety issues with the wet woodland - it’s very shallow. It was always going to be formed after the lake was filled and settled so I wouldn't be sure it’s not going to happen.
Time will tell. Meanwhile I wonder if anyone knows how the youngster that was rescued and taken away by Air Ambulance has fared. I do hope the child survived the ordeal.

Rachael
Posts: 2447
Joined: 23 Jan 2010 13:42
Location: Sydenham / Forest Hill Intersection

Re: The Drowning Place - Beckenham Place Park

Post by Rachael »

John H wrote:
7 Aug 2019 19:34
Rachael wrote:
7 Aug 2019 14:23
The infrastructure for the wet woodland is all there - the outflow from the lake was installed some time ago. So the money has been spent already. I don’t see how there would be any safety issues with the wet woodland - it’s very shallow. It was always going to be formed after the lake was filled and settled so I wouldn't be sure it’s not going to happen.
Time will tell. Meanwhile I wonder if anyone knows how the youngster that was rescued and taken away by Air Ambulance has fared. I do hope the child survived the ordeal.
Minor injuries according to the press.

https://www.kentlive.news/news/kent-new ... ng-3122611

John H
Posts: 278
Joined: 17 Aug 2017 18:15
Location: Sydenham

Re: The Drowning Place - Beckenham Place Park

Post by John H »

Rachael wrote:
7 Aug 2019 20:45
John H wrote:
7 Aug 2019 19:34
Rachael wrote:
7 Aug 2019 14:23
The infrastructure for the wet woodland is all there - the outflow from the lake was installed some time ago. So the money has been spent already. I don’t see how there would be any safety issues with the wet woodland - it’s very shallow. It was always going to be formed after the lake was filled and settled so I wouldn't be sure it’s not going to happen.
Time will tell. Meanwhile I wonder if anyone knows how the youngster that was rescued and taken away by Air Ambulance has fared. I do hope the child survived the ordeal.
Minor injuries according to the press.

https://www.kentlive.news/news/kent-new ... ng-3122611
and yet the lake had to be closed.

Holaquease
Posts: 55
Joined: 2 Sep 2016 22:13

Re: The Drowning Place - Beckenham Place Park

Post by Holaquease »

and yet the lake had to be closed.


The press are clearly lying to advance their own agenda. I don't know who's behind Kent Live but I'd bet its (one or a combination of) the Russians/EUSSR/George Soros/the Freemasons.

Howard Staunton
Posts: 85
Joined: 15 Sep 2007 18:30
Location: Fairlawn Park

Re: The Drowning Place - Beckenham Place Park

Post by Howard Staunton »

Holaquease wrote:
8 Aug 2019 13:23
and yet the lake had to be closed.


The press are clearly lying to advance their own agenda. I don't know who's behind Kent Live but I'd bet its (one or a combination of) the Russians/EUSSR/George Soros/the Freemasons.
I'm sure I saw Vladimir Putin, Donald Tusk, George Soros and the Duke of Edinburgh together in Nandos last week; which I thought was odd, but it all makes sense now.

The Clown
Posts: 383
Joined: 8 Apr 2005 14:04
Location: Sydenham

Re: The Drowning Place - Beckenham Place Park

Post by The Clown »

Or maybe I’ll get one of those pink swimming hats with the yellow flowers...

Rachael
Posts: 2447
Joined: 23 Jan 2010 13:42
Location: Sydenham / Forest Hill Intersection

Re: The Drowning Place - Beckenham Place Park

Post by Rachael »

Several months on and locals may like to know that the lake has been successfully reopened. There are regular swimmers - I even had a go myself - as well as paddle boarding and canoeing. While children under 8 are currently not allowed to use the lake, I've seen older children properly supervised enjoying a swim.

Meanwhile the wet woodland area is being flooded in preparation for new planting in the Spring.

Mal Mitchell
Posts: 2
Joined: 6 Jul 2020 10:43

Re: The Drowning Place - Beckenham Place Park

Post by Mal Mitchell »

RJM wrote:
5 Aug 2019 13:05
John H wrote:
5 Aug 2019 12:20
However... it may well be the covenant refers to the people of the district of Catford. It was an urban district by nature so whether or not it was formally governed as a UDC is somewhat irrelevant . Feel free to troll on.

The Beckenham Place Friends history does not refer to LCC purchasing the Park. It states simply they "acquired it from the Cator ESTATE"... not the family. The information I had access to many years ago indicated it was a gift with a covenant attached to the land. That, of course, can be checked with the Land Registry although Lewisham have copies or indeed the originals of the deeds concerned.
I'm not "trolling", I'm just trying to make the claim you made connect up with my knowledge of historic London local government, which is also what my reference to boroughs was based on. I actually thought it might be worth trying to track down the relevant records, and it generally saves time to find them in the right place first, so finding out the correct body is always useful. I'm interested in local history and it seemed unusual, so I've asked reasonable questions to try and make it tie up - as oddly enough, I'm in favour of free access to parks.

If you're going to make an argument based on a historical document, it seems reasonable to be able to back that up with evidence. I've come across far too many spurious "everyone knows" local history claims in my career for which no documentary evidence actually exists to take them on face value. Pity that this seems to be another one.
Beckenham Place was bought by the LCC from the Cator Estate which was essentially another 'John Cator' who died in 1944 and some trustees. Family estates were often held under trustees as the family intended the ownership to follow 'in tail' down the family line and not be disposed of. However, even such trusts get overturned and we believe the Cator Estate did get divied up between family members. We have attempted to correct and revise the history of the park based on discoverable evidence. The price was £47,000 in 1927 and the park opened to the public in 1929. There were at one time some convenants to prohibit businesses being run from the site but In my understanding convenants are pretty useless or outdated on the basis that the dead should not control the living... In any case opinion is divided on how the lake should be run, how it was designed and how much the running costs v. income will be. Only time will tell. Certainly parks generally are under pressure from all the variety of uses and demands that people put on them. What was a quiet retreat is now often akin to a trip down Petty Coat Lane.

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