Local public transport and face coverings

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alywin
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Location: Penge side of Sydenham

Local public transport and face coverings

Post by alywin »

I got on a 227 bus earlier today: we ended up with perhaps 15 people on the bus, and maybe only 1/5 of those actually wearing face coverings of any sort. To add insult to injury, they weren't optimally spread out, either, which made social distancing of any sort very difficult. Based on my observations in recent days, I thought the message about wearing face coverings on public transport had got through, but obviously it hasn't. If this is what it's going to be like, I can see the powers that be making it obligatory to wear them - that might be no bad thing.

angela53
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Re: Local public transport and face coverings

Post by angela53 »

I totally agree with you

syd
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Re: Local public transport and face coverings

Post by syd »

alywin wrote:
26 May 2020 00:27
I got on a 227 bus earlier today: we ended up with perhaps 15 people on the bus, and maybe only 1/5 of those actually wearing face coverings of any sort. To add insult to injury, they weren't optimally spread out, either, which made social distancing of any sort very difficult. Based on my observations in recent days, I thought the message about wearing face coverings on public transport had got through, but obviously it hasn't. If this is what it's going to be like, I can see the powers that be making it obligatory to wear them - that might be no bad thing.
We’ve been led to believe the pandemic is over, it’s a problem.

alywin
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Location: Penge side of Sydenham

Re: Local public transport and face coverings

Post by alywin »

I guess that must be it. I wonder why anyone thinks it's over? Wait for the infections to start rising again ...

And, two days ago, on a 358, I was the only one out of 7 actually wearing a face covering. I haven't got used to checking for more than simply the number of passengers before I get on a bus yet - and I tend to assume that everyone is following the guidance: I got off short of my intended destination again once I realised the risk. When you think that the buses are supposedly for key workers and essential journeys, it worries me. What on earth it must be like on the trains I do not know - although I did pass Penge East recently just after a train had come in, and I didn't see many people wearing face masks as they exited the station.

syd
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Re: Local public transport and face coverings

Post by syd »

alywin wrote:
28 May 2020 14:02
I guess that must be it. I wonder why anyone thinks it's over? Wait for the infections to start rising again ...

And, two days ago, on a 358, I was the only one out of 7 actually wearing a face covering. I haven't got used to checking for more than simply the number of passengers before I get on a bus yet - and I tend to assume that everyone is following the guidance: I got off short of my intended destination again once I realised the risk. When you think that the buses are supposedly for key workers and essential journeys, it worries me. What on earth it must be like on the trains I do not know - although I did pass Penge East recently just after a train had come in, and I didn't see many people wearing face masks as they exited the station.
I would suggest avoid public transport for June if you can. There will be a 2nd wave, the lockdown is being eased for one reason and it’s not for our benefit.

alywin
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Re: Local public transport and face coverings

Post by alywin »

Quite.

JGD
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Re: Local public transport and face coverings

Post by JGD »

Unconfirmed reports this morning (Monday) that TfL have introduce measures to limit the numbers of passengers permitted on a bus at one time to improve separation.

These propose 10 passengers on a single-decker and 15 on a double-decker.

It probably helps - but means you may not be allowed to board a bus that has reached its newly sanctioned capacity.

ETA: Notices have been posted on buses confirming the new limited numbers.

JGD
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Re: Local public transport and face coverings

Post by JGD »

Interesting blend of outcomes on a trip today.

The 356 is restricted to 8 passengers.

The 185 service appears to have no restrictions, no touch in and front doors still locked out.

Parker1970
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Re: Local public transport and face coverings

Post by Parker1970 »

JGD wrote:
1 Jun 2020 12:21
Interesting blend of outcomes on a trip today.

The 356 is restricted to 8 passengers.

The 185 service appears to have no restrictions, no touch in and front doors still locked out.
I don't know those routes, but perhaps one route is busier than the other so they have different restrictions? Awkward for passengers I would have though so perhaps I am wrong.

JGD
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Re: Local public transport and face coverings

Post by JGD »

Just completed the return leg.

I was passenger number 9 trying to board the 356 and got a polite and gentle refusal from the driver.

Hey-ho.

syd-gal
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Re: Local public transport and face coverings

Post by syd-gal »

None of the double deckers I've been on recently - 185, 176, 197, are charging. Nor are they restricting numbers. People are still getting on the 356 and saying they haven't got their card and expect a free ride. They are able to go shopping but claim they don't have a travel or credit card!
Lots of parents using the buses today to take their children to school!

alywin
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Re: Local public transport and face coverings

Post by alywin »

JGD wrote:
1 Jun 2020 07:33
Unconfirmed reports this morning (Monday) that TfL have introduce measures to limit the numbers of passengers permitted on a bus at one time to improve separation.
They announced it late last week, I think - but I thought the limit was 20 on double-deckers. I saw a 54 in Beckenham at the weekend with a "BUS FULL" sign at the front. All very well on the frequent buses, but what if your line is one of the little ones that only run every 20 minutes? The next bus is just as likely to be full as the previous one.

The reopening of the driver's doors, and hence resumption of payment on many buses, started on Saturday - but various other buses are still centre-entry only, and hence free of charge. The TfL website has details.

alywin
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Re: Local public transport and face coverings

Post by alywin »

syd-gal wrote:
1 Jun 2020 18:01
None of the double deckers I've been on recently - 185, 176, 197, are charging.
176 and 197 were on the list charging as of last Saturday - although if you got a Boris bus on the 176 route you should have been able to touch in anyway as there are readers at the centre and rear doors.

I'm seriously considering suggesting that people wearing masks should be given priority over those not doing so - that might get the compliance rates up quite a lot :) Instructions on tube, bus and rail are to wear them, but people are still ignoring it.

JGD
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Re: Local public transport and face coverings

Post by JGD »

Perhaps it is not necessary to be too proscriptive.

On the 356 yesterday it was evident that there were several elderly passengers who boarded before me, none of whom had masks.

There may be real questions about how people can be provided with or purchase face masks, particularly if you have no web-access or do not shop online. We ordered our carton of masks from a supplier in Streatham for example. Prices seem to vary online from £0.95 to £1.70 per mask. At a use rate of one mask per day this could be quite a hike on expenditure for someone on a state pension who might be doing a daily shop for fresh food.

Some countries make it mandatory for masks to be worn on public transport and also elect to issue masks for free. Perhaps we should be taking a similar view, particularly for the vulnerable.

alywin
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Re: Local public transport and face coverings

Post by alywin »

Well, yes, we probably should. I was wrong to use the term "masks", I suppose, but I was getting fed up with typing "face coverings" :) Most people are going to have some sort of scarf, T-shirt, bandana or whatever which they can use to cover their nose, mouth and chin - that was what I meant.

BTW, I've just looked at the TfL website, which confirmed the limits on passenger numbers. Unfortunately, it also says that the buses by and large are running Sunday services. So that's a reduced number of buses, each with a pretty small limit on the number of passengers, on perhaps a Saturday, when a lot of people are going shopping. Say I'm at Elmers End, and trying to get home. A 194 comes along, but is full. By definition, I have another 20 minutes to wait for the next one, which may also be full. Do I hop on whatever bus is going in the right direction and has space, even if that maybe means changing as soon as at Beckenham war memorial (or possibly in Penge) - but that may mean that I contribute to the bus being full when someone else needing to make a much longer journey on that route needs to use it? From the point of view of limiting potential exposure to the virus, it's possibly actually quite a sensible idea to change and change again. Or do I hang around for the next 194 in 20 minutes, even knowing I may not be able to get on that one either? Not easy.

JGD
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Re: Local public transport and face coverings

Post by JGD »

alywin wrote:
2 Jun 2020 13:16
Say I'm at Elmers End, and trying to get home. A 194 comes along, but is full. By definition, I have another 20 minutes to wait for the next one, which may also be full. Do I hop on whatever bus is going in the right direction and has space, even if that maybe means changing as soon as at Beckenham war memorial (or possibly in Penge) - but that may mean that I contribute to the bus being full when someone else needing to make a much longer journey on that route needs to use it? From the point of view of limiting potential exposure to the virus, it's possibly actually quite a sensible idea to change and change again. Or do I hang around for the next 194 in 20 minutes, even knowing I may not be able to get on that one either? Not easy.
I can only but agree that this is a difficult conundrum and at more than one level.

Had to repeat my journey today and fell into the trap of being at the same 356 stop - so I abandoned completing the home-leg of the journey by bus and made it by other means. So at least there was no dilemma over whether I was taking up a seat that someone more needy could have used.

I'm not sure there is any answer never mind an easy one. On a route with an 8 passenger limit and say only a 2 or 3 bus per hour frequency, trips could begin to take inordinately longer to complete - if at all.

Think that any potential solution fits into "the wisdom of Solomon" category.

JGD
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Re: Local public transport and face coverings

Post by JGD »

New outcome.

Transport for London are going to hand out free face masks at the busiest Tube and bus stations.

Good move - shame there will probably be no distribution points in forms of busy Tube stations or bus stations around us here.

https://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/1849 ... -stations/

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