Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

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RJM
Posts: 133
Joined: 2 Jan 2016 15:30
Location: Sydenham

Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by RJM »

There are a series of proposals on road closures in Lewisham to support walking and cycling in the wake of Covid-19. One of the proposals is to close SIlverdale and Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic. You can find more details and comment here: https://lewishamcovidresidentialstreets ... ad/details

Personally, I think it will just force traffic on to Mayow Road, making Mayow less safe for walking and cycling, as well as pushing up air pollution for the roads around there, so I'm not a fan. Full details are on the link, as well as details of the other schemes.
Tim Lund
Posts: 6716
Joined: 13 Mar 2008 18:10
Location: Silverdale

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by Tim Lund »

RJM wrote: 12 Jun 2020 11:27 There are a series of proposals on road closures in Lewisham to support walking and cycling in the wake of Covid-19. One of the proposals is to close SIlverdale and Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic. You can find more details and comment here: https://lewishamcovidresidentialstreets ... ad/details

Personally, I think it will just force traffic on to Mayow Road, making Mayow less safe for walking and cycling, as well as pushing up air pollution for the roads around there, so I'm not a fan. Full details are on the link, as well as details of the other schemes.
There's always some initial traffic displacement, but the long term experience is that measures such as these are what encourage people to shift to less polluting ways of getting about. When motorists drive less, or work out that they don't even need to own a car, they save money, get fitter, and make the environment nice for the rest of us. What's not to like?
RJM
Posts: 133
Joined: 2 Jan 2016 15:30
Location: Sydenham

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by RJM »

For me, what's not to like is that not enough thought seems to have gone into the impact of where traffic will inevitably go instead. I'm concerned about an increase in traffic and air pollution in and around Mayow Road. I'm very much in favour of a reduction in car use, I don't own a car and think alternatives are a great idea.

If I've read the website correctly, there is a trial period and a consultation on whether it should be permanent. Perhaps the trial period will take care of my fears!
Tim Lund
Posts: 6716
Joined: 13 Mar 2008 18:10
Location: Silverdale

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by Tim Lund »

RJM wrote: 12 Jun 2020 15:36 For me, what's not to like is that not enough thought seems to have gone into the impact of where traffic will inevitably go instead. I'm concerned about an increase in traffic and air pollution in and around Mayow Road. I'm very much in favour of a reduction in car use, I don't own a car and think alternatives are a great idea.

If I've read the website correctly, there is a trial period and a consultation on whether it should be permanent. Perhaps the trial period will take care of my fears!
It's not as if what's being proposed is that novel. Similar schemes are being implemented in London - most notably Waltham Forest -

some assessment here

but going much further back, they are how the process of changing Amsterdam started

Image

Source here

There's loads of research done on this, and no reason to think the consultants behind this haven't done enough for this particular scheme.

As you say, this is a trial period, so we will be able to see the impact
GLOBAL THINKER
Posts: 158
Joined: 2 Nov 2004 13:20
Location: SYDENHAM

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by GLOBAL THINKER »

More effort should be spent making Sydenham Road more walker/bike friendly. Queensthorpe Road is already blocked off and has not benefited the residents of Sydenham other than the homeowners who already live within the conservation area and left a big square opposite the post office that is practically useless. How much did that cost? This seems like a push to extend the no entry roads around the Thorpes under the guise of "because of COVID19" What starts as temporary becomes permanent. An indication of costs involved would be a good place to start. If this scheme went ahead I would like to see a published definite beginning and end date. We need to ensure that funds are distributed evenly in Sydenham and not only benefit the few. How about zebra crossings outside primary schools for instance? Proper toilets in the parks?
I’m curious who decided that it should be these two roads and not a road adjoining a school for instance. I’m getting little tired of Lewisham Council pandering to the wealthier residents of Sydenham in this way. Sydenham station is an important gateway to the area, let’s improve the whole area and let everyone benefit. Clearly there are funds available, tell us what’s in the pot! Let all the residents of Sydenham decide how it should be spent.
f4monty
Posts: 36
Joined: 2 Aug 2015 18:27
Location: Sydenham

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by f4monty »

Pleased to see the council is planning temporary barriers on Wells Park Road to stop the dreadful parking on pavements near the park. Social distancing as pedestrians is impossible there at present unless dodging traffic while walking in the road...
Ghlpc
Posts: 349
Joined: 2 Aug 2013 14:02

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by Ghlpc »

GLOBAL THINKER wrote: 12 Jun 2020 18:21 More effort should be spent making Sydenham Road more walker/bike friendly. Queensthorpe Road is already blocked off and has not benefited the residents of Sydenham other than the homeowners who already live within the conservation area and left a big square opposite the post office that is practically useless. How much did that cost? This seems like a push to extend the no entry roads around the Thorpes under the guise of "because of COVID19" What starts as temporary becomes permanent. An indication of costs involved would be a good place to start. If this scheme went ahead I would like to see a published definite beginning and end date. We need to ensure that funds are distributed evenly in Sydenham and not only benefit the few. How about zebra crossings outside primary schools for instance? Proper toilets in the parks?
I’m curious who decided that it should be these two roads and not a road adjoining a school for instance. I’m getting little tired of Lewisham Council pandering to the wealthier residents of Sydenham in this way. Sydenham station is an important gateway to the area, let’s improve the whole area and let everyone benefit. Clearly there are funds available, tell us what’s in the pot! Let all the residents of Sydenham decide how it should be spent.
100% agree.
Ghlpc
Posts: 349
Joined: 2 Aug 2013 14:02

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by Ghlpc »

Last I checked these two streets are not exactly heaving with pedestrians weaving in and out of each other.

The social distancing argument is rubbish.

What about the alleyway that runs from silverdale to station approach? Narrow as hell! So if they are serious about social distancing this should either be closed or made one way surely (maybe it has I haven't been for a while)??

They are not serious. The covid thing is being used as an excuse.
f4monty
Posts: 36
Joined: 2 Aug 2015 18:27
Location: Sydenham

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by f4monty »

Ghlpc wrote: 12 Jun 2020 22:52 Last I checked these two streets are not exactly heaving with pedestrians weaving in and out of each other.

The social distancing argument is rubbish.

What about the alleyway that runs from silverdale to station approach? Narrow as hell! So if they are serious about social distancing this should either be closed or made one way surely (maybe it has I haven't been for a while)??

They are not serious. The covid thing is being used as an excuse.
If you look at the website, the public can suggest other schemes so I suggest you do that and encourage others to support it. Also the high street is often busy when I go down there.
KPR
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Location: Sydenham

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by KPR »

I agree that there might be better uses of the money but both those roads are rat runs at the moment and I have lost count of the times someone has nearly run me over at the junction of Silverdale and Sydenham Road in particular.

As for school safety, I think better than crossings would be some enforcement of parking restrictions. Sick of people, including parents, parking right outside with the engine running.
GLOBAL THINKER
Posts: 158
Joined: 2 Nov 2004 13:20
Location: SYDENHAM

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by GLOBAL THINKER »

I understand the works are due to start tomorrow?? Please correct me if I am wrong. The https://lewishamcovidresidentialstreets ... ad/details website was still taking comments up to an hour ago, why?
I have written to Chris Best and Liam Curran and expressed my concerns about the seeming favourable treatment of certain streets in Sydenham. Pushed through with very little consultation. Shocking behaviour by Lewisham Council. They give us the St Philip Neri carbuncle and the Thorpes residents get beginnings of a gated community.
Cathy
Posts: 123
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 11:20
Location: SE26

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by Cathy »

Global Thinker - this stems from the proposals last year down at the library.
Ghlpc
Posts: 349
Joined: 2 Aug 2013 14:02

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by Ghlpc »

The relevance of this propsal is undermined by this sub standard 'consultation'.

But let's not beat around the bush.

Some influential people in high places live on the Thorpes.

Its as simple as that.
Sydenham
Posts: 284
Joined: 2 Sep 2007 09:08
Location: Wells Park

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by Sydenham »

Also other proposals out there affecting Sydenham: https://lewishamcovidshopsandstreets.co ... s/overview inc. Wells Park Road and Dartmouth Road (ok that's Forest Hill)

inc. wider Lewisham: https://lewishamcovidresidentialstreets ... s/overview

It's not just all about the Thorpes ..........

Please review and make your comments there as well
Tim Lund
Posts: 6716
Joined: 13 Mar 2008 18:10
Location: Silverdale

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by Tim Lund »

GLOBAL THINKER wrote: 14 Jun 2020 19:30 I understand the works are due to start tomorrow?? Please correct me if I am wrong. The https://lewishamcovidresidentialstreets ... ad/details website was still taking comments up to an hour ago, why?
I have written to Chris Best and Liam Curran and expressed my concerns about the seeming favourable treatment of certain streets in Sydenham. Pushed through with very little consultation. Shocking behaviour by Lewisham Council. They give us the St Philip Neri carbuncle and the Thorpes residents get beginnings of a gated community.
It's not a gated community when pedestrians and riff raff like me can get through on our bicycles
Tim Lund
Posts: 6716
Joined: 13 Mar 2008 18:10
Location: Silverdale

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by Tim Lund »

GLOBAL THINKER wrote: 12 Jun 2020 18:21 More effort should be spent making Sydenham Road more walker/bike friendly. Queensthorpe Road is already blocked off and has not benefited the residents of Sydenham other than the homeowners who already live within the conservation area and left a big square opposite the post office that is practically useless. How much did that cost? This seems like a push to extend the no entry roads around the Thorpes under the guise of "because of COVID19" What starts as temporary becomes permanent. An indication of costs involved would be a good place to start. If this scheme went ahead I would like to see a published definite beginning and end date. We need to ensure that funds are distributed evenly in Sydenham and not only benefit the few. How about zebra crossings outside primary schools for instance? Proper toilets in the parks?
I’m curious who decided that it should be these two roads and not a road adjoining a school for instance. I’m getting little tired of Lewisham Council pandering to the wealthier residents of Sydenham in this way. Sydenham station is an important gateway to the area, let’s improve the whole area and let everyone benefit. Clearly there are funds available, tell us what’s in the pot! Let all the residents of Sydenham decide how it should be spent.
If we're interested in improving Sydenham Road, this is the sort of thing we want

Image

This is from Oxford, where some friends of mine were involved in this, asking their council to do more, rather than less. As to what a bus gate is ..
essentially just CCTV cameras which let buses and bikes through, and fine cars and motorbikes. As a camera isn't very inspiring we're just showing where they could go and showing why they are great, in typical XR-singing-dancing-flag-waving style, at an appropriate social distance.

Come along to a bus gate site to chalk the streets, sing and wave signs at the proposped bus gates sites, and to send a strong message to the County Council that we want Oxford to #BuildBackBetter with bold new cycling and walking infrastructure and investment targeted where the most number of people live, work and socialise.
https://www.facebook.com/events/2111563268988921/
coll
Posts: 189
Joined: 17 Oct 2007 15:55
Location: sydenham

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by coll »

The road is now closed. This seems so arbitrary and spontaneous. Perhaps it will lower the amount of traffic on the road that a local counseller lives on?

I have also noticed that the man who was running his car repair business on Bishopsthorpe and Silverdale has begun to leave loads of cars and vans strewn about the road again. This Road closure will probably only encourage him further to continue using the road as a rent free garage.
Sydenham Syd
Posts: 255
Joined: 30 May 2014 09:59
Location: Europe, until otherwise instructed

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by Sydenham Syd »

coll wrote: 18 Jun 2020 07:56 The road is now closed. This seems so arbitrary and spontaneous. Perhaps it will lower the amount of traffic on the road that a local counseller lives on?

I have also noticed that the man who was running his car repair business on Bishopsthorpe and Silverdale has begun to leave loads of cars and vans strewn about the road again. This Road closure will probably only encourage him further to continue using the road as a rent free garage.
We walked down there yesterday evening and there were about five cars that came down and had to turn around. I realise people will get used to it and eventually head in a different direction, but it occurred to me, why don’t they just put those half-Island breaks in the road rather than close the thing off entirely. Surely the idea is to slow the traffic down and stop it being a rat run. Wouldn’t that be a way of deterring people?
Other thing that my other half pointed out was that if a moped was being chased they could easily go into the area and just lose the police. Prob quite a common thing in other areas, but seems that the Thorpes might become a hotbed for moped escapes
danmarwil
Posts: 16
Joined: 1 Apr 2016 12:05
Location: Sydenham

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by danmarwil »

Had a walk down Silverdale this evening, both sets of road blocks have already been moved aside by (I assume) disgruntled motorists.
Cathy
Posts: 123
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 11:20
Location: SE26

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by Cathy »

Received an email earlier from the Consultation people to say they are aware of this and permanent structures will be put in place next week to stop this.
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