Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

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MET
Posts: 7
Joined: 26 Feb 2020 13:51

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by MET »

Restricting traffic down these roads is an excellent idea. These changes are happening across London and, in my opinion, making places a lot nicer for residents. This is a good thread covering some of the new infrastructure across the city https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/12 ... 9060959233
It would be great if the council could also make the main high st a more pleasant and safer place for pedestrians!

My only concern about losing traffic on silverdale is that it becomes less safe to walk down at night - I wonder if the council have considered how to mitigate that risk?

Jacks
Posts: 34
Joined: 8 Jan 2014 23:15
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by Jacks »

As a silverdale resident, I think these closures are brilliant. In the years I’ve lived on the road the traffic has increased exponentially, as has road rage, The dangerous way people drive and believe they can do whatever they like has also left the road dangerous to cross and impossible to use safely. Whether a full time closure is the right solution or whether it gives the council time to plan some serious traffic calming measures along the road, I don’t know. I’m enjoying getting more sleep, fewer sinus problems and being disturbed less by people sitting outside my house with their hand on the horn because someone else dared to drive down the road at the same time as them though. It seems from the consultation that most people complaining don’t live on the road so perhaps rather than being bitter that Silverdale is benefitting, we should be rallying to see if we can improve things elsewhere too?!

There are obviously things which must be monitored and acted upon by the council during the consultation time, such as whether the research which shows this will reduce traffic over time is true for here. Also, do the traffic lights in the area need adjusting, I think they do. Do we need as many pedestrian crossings on the high street?

This is a real opportunity for improvement of the whole area, there are so many roads used as rat runs, but Silverdale has become unbearable with queues of up to 15 minutes to get out the road at rush hour. Something needed to be done and hopefully the success of this closure will encourage the council to turn their attention to other problem roads.

The person who has taken it upon themselves to buy a key and continually reopen the road needs to stop though, it’s confusing people and making it far more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists and children who aren’t expecting cars to be flying at them at 30mph down a closed road. Apart from the fact I’m sure is illegal, the closure isn’t going anywhere so they need to get a grip and stop being so entitled and selfish.
Last edited by Jacks on 23 Jul 2020 18:49, edited 1 time in total.

Cathy
Posts: 119
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 11:20
Location: SE26

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by Cathy »

Jacks. What a fantastic post - I could not have put it better - especially the last paragraph. Thank you.

Holaquease
Posts: 59
Joined: 2 Sep 2016 22:13

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by Holaquease »

Jacks wrote:
23 Jul 2020 16:08
As a silverdale resident, I think these closures are brilliant. In the years I’ve lived on the road the traffic has increased exponentially, as has road rage, The dangerous way people drive and believe they can do whatever they like has also left the road dangerous to cross and impossible to use safely. Whether a full time closure is the right solution or whether it gives the council time to plan some serious traffic calming measures along the road, I don’t know. I’m enjoying getting more sleep, fewer sinus problems and being disturbed less by people sitting outside my house with their hand on the horn because someone else dared to drive down the road at the same time as them though. It seems from the consultation that most people complaining don’t live on the road so perhaps rather than being bitter that Silverdale is benefitting, we should be rallying to see if we can improve things elsewhere too?!

There are obviously things which must be monitored and acted upon by the council during the consultation time, such as whether the research which shows this will reduce traffic over time is true for here. Also, do the traffic lights in the area need adjusting, I think they do. Do we need as many pedestrian crossings on the high street?

This is a real opportunity for improvement of the whole area, there are so many roads used as rat runs, but Silverdale has become unbearable with queues of up to 15 minutes to get out the road at rush hour. Something needed to be done and hopefully the success of this closure will encourage the council to turn their attention to other problem roads.

The person who has taken it upon themselves to buy a key and continually reopen the road needs to stop though, it’s confusing people and making it far more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists and children who aren’t expecting cars to be flying at them at 30mph down a closed road. Apart from the fact I’m sure is illegal, the closure isn’t going anywhere so they need to get a grip and stop being so entitled and selfish.
There appears to be an obsession with the benefits of these closures to residents of the Thorpes. Loads of speculation, particularly on the thechrisbeachshow.life, that this is a result of corrupt local officials. There has been very little comment on the fact the Silverdale was, prior to these measures, one of the worst roads in the area.

Of course the traffic has to go somewhere and I feel for those that have been negatively impacted, myself included. But it is nice to hear from someone who has benefitted from the calming of this road. Surely that was the intention, not a corrupt desire to turn the Thorpes into a cul de sac.

Ghlpc
Posts: 348
Joined: 2 Aug 2013 14:02

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by Ghlpc »

Jacks wrote:
23 Jul 2020 16:08
As a silverdale resident, I think these closures are brilliant. In the years I’ve lived on the road the traffic has increased exponentially, as has road rage, The dangerous way people drive and believe they can do whatever they like has also left the road dangerous to cross and impossible to use safely. Whether a full time closure is the right solution or whether it gives the council time to plan some serious traffic calming measures along the road, I don’t know. I’m enjoying getting more sleep, fewer sinus problems and being disturbed less by people sitting outside my house with their hand on the horn because someone else dared to drive down the road at the same time as them though. It seems from the consultation that most people complaining don’t live on the road so perhaps rather than being bitter that Silverdale is benefitting, we should be rallying to see if we can improve things elsewhere too?!

There are obviously things which must be monitored and acted upon by the council during the consultation time, such as whether the research which shows this will reduce traffic over time is true for here. Also, do the traffic lights in the area need adjusting, I think they do. Do we need as many pedestrian crossings on the high street?

This is a real opportunity for improvement of the whole area, there are so many roads used as rat runs, but Silverdale has become unbearable with queues of up to 15 minutes to get out the road at rush hour. Something needed to be done and hopefully the success of this closure will encourage the council to turn their attention to other problem roads.

The person who has taken it upon themselves to buy a key and continually reopen the road needs to stop though, it’s confusing people and making it far more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists and children who aren’t expecting cars to be flying at them at 30mph down a closed road. Apart from the fact I’m sure is illegal, the closure isn’t going anywhere so they need to get a grip and stop being so entitled and selfish.
I'm glad your getting more sleep. We should all remember that when we are queuing at Mayow road light's or sitting in traffic on the high street.

RJM
Posts: 129
Joined: 2 Jan 2016 15:30
Location: Sydenham

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by RJM »

Jacks wrote:
23 Jul 2020 16:08
There are obviously things which must be monitored and acted upon by the council during the consultation time, such as whether the research which shows this will reduce traffic over time is true for here. Also, do the traffic lights in the area need adjusting, I think they do. Do we need as many pedestrian crossings on the high street?

This is a real opportunity for improvement of the whole area, there are so many roads used as rat runs, but Silverdale has become unbearable with queues of up to 15 minutes to get out the road at rush hour. Something needed to be done and hopefully the success of this closure will encourage the council to turn their attention to other problem roads.
We need all those crossings on the High Street! Some of them take absolutely ages to change so have little impact on traffic, and if we're trying to encourage more people to walk places then the safer the crossing the better, If road closures are intended to drive traffic to main thoroughfares, then those need to be kept safe for pedestrians.

Agreed that rush hour traffic on Silverdale was appalling - I'm still concerned that this is going to drive traffic to Mayow Road instead. Admittedly it's wider and better suited, but if we're talking about general improvement to the area then crossings by the Park need to be installed. It's very popular with families and needs to be safe to get across the road if there is going to be more traffic. I'd also like to see better lighting on Silverdale.

Jacks
Posts: 34
Joined: 8 Jan 2014 23:15
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by Jacks »

/quote]

I'm glad your getting more sleep. We should all remember that when we are queuing at Mayow road light's or sitting in traffic on the high street.
[/quote]

I think you're taking completely the wrong point of my comment, but I'm glad you'll enjoy your queuing just a little bit more because you know that I get more than 4 hours undisturbed sleep now.

The irony of all the people complaining they have to use a main roads instead of a residential roads (let's remember, it's only for 6 months) is that I live less than 100m from the high street on Silverdale but I NEVER used to queue on Silverdale to turn right because it was quicker to go back on myself and onto Mayow road then up the high street than to join the queue. Mayow Road is much wider, it is a bus route and a main road. In time it will also see the benefits of the local closures as more people are encouraged to walk instead of drive. It baffles me that there aren't proper, safe crossings on this road and I hope that the council will act on this quickly - perhaps the angry people's energies would be better spent joining the campaign for this while they wait for the roads to reopen.

Now, we Silverdale residents don't get only benefits from the closures. It took me much longer to go to and from Sainsbury's the other day (it also takes me longer to get to work when I need to drive and it takes me longer to visit family). That was a bit annoying if I'm honest but I don't mind too much. What has it encouraged me to do? It's encouraged me to only do that trip once a week (or less if possible) instead of a couple of times a week. It also stops me going down Adamsrill road, so they benefit from the closure of Silverdale too, as does Perry Vale. So ultimately if we all make these little changes, the scheme reduces traffic caused by journeys that don't need to happen as regularly and therefore those that do (commuters who can't take public transport for example) benefit from reduced traffic on the roads, and a faster journey which ultimately improves the environment for everyone.

Regarding my comment about crossings, it was only a thought process written out loud. The scheme gives the opportunity to look at the entire traffic infrastructure of the area. As residents we should be embracing this and driving the discussions wherever possible. It gives the opportunity to make changes to things such as how quickly the lights change, should we have a zebra instead of a pelican at one point, should we lose a couple of spaces and have a road narrowing with a crossing like in Penge, is the roundabout at Cobbs corner designed optimally or could it be better for flow of traffic, is closing off roads a good answer to the problems or do we need other traffic calming measures?

Ultimately when you look at the comments on the scheme webpage, they are overwhelmingly positive from residents, we should harness that and spread the love a bit to other streets that would also benefit from similar schemes. Lewisham seem open to suggestions and there is clearly some money knocking around.

MET
Posts: 7
Joined: 26 Feb 2020 13:51

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by MET »

Jacks wrote:
23 Jul 2020 16:08
we should be rallying to see if we can improve things elsewhere too?!
100% - a race to the bottom helps nobody. Instead of begrudging those that benefit, let's use this as a positive example for change across sydenham.

Ghlpc
Posts: 348
Joined: 2 Aug 2013 14:02

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by Ghlpc »

Regarding pushing traffic onto main roads, and specifically Sydenham High street in this case, I think people forget that its a mix used road, with many hundreds of residential households living above shops and in the flats. Mayow road is residential and has schools.

So they suffer even more on the high street, as do the shoppers, with increased idling traffic causing pollution because a short cut for drivers has been closed of. So how is that fair?

And on the Sillverdale issue, perhaps the closure of Queensthorpe road a few years ago has something to do with the increased traffic on that road? Just a guess.

Look at a map, and with Silverdale, Bishopsthorpe and the previously closed Queensthorpe now all no through routes, its created a nice little enclave in that area.

And the Sydenham Society have had nothing to say at all on this matter at. I wonder why.

I just think if it were my road that was to benefit, of course I'd probabaly happy, but I also beleive I would have the decency not to come on here and try to justify it with every reason apart from the most blindingly obvious one.

Jacks
Posts: 34
Joined: 8 Jan 2014 23:15
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by Jacks »

MET wrote:
24 Jul 2020 13:25
Jacks wrote:
23 Jul 2020 16:08
we should be rallying to see if we can improve things elsewhere too?!
100% - a race to the bottom helps nobody. Instead of begrudging those that benefit, let's use this as a positive example for change across sydenham.
Exactly!

Ghlpc - clearly you are in the group who are opposed to these changes. The changes benefit me. They make my life better. They were done to make residents' lives better...I'm not ashamed to say it and to shout my support from the roof tops. Sydenham Town Forum is supposed to be a place where all sides of the story can express their beliefs, not just the people opposed to something. If you read my posts very clearly you will see that I would love this benefit to spread to other areas of Sydenham. I have no comment on the closure of Bishopsthorpe - well, I do, but I made that comment on the official page (spoiler: I don't think it needs to be closed, because Silverdale's closure fixes both problems). You seem convinced that this makes an already wealthy road wealthier - Silverdale has some of the lower house prices in this area of Sydenham and there are swathes of council properties and tenants here. Compare average house value here with that of Mayow Road. We aren't in the conservation area so we don't benefit from that either. Our homes aren't all beautiful victorian properties that are set back from the road. You are absolutely right that the closure of Queensthorpe and the installation of that pointless and ill-used pocket square had a huge effect on the traffic coming onto Silverdale and I opposed it vehemently at the time. But does that mean I should put up with the appalling state Silverdale has been in since it happened? No. Back on the topic of the Thorpes - you have only seen it from a beneficial point of view, but actually, their residents aren't all in favour because they can't use Silverdale now either and have to use Mayow Road regardless of where they're going. As I've said before, and I'll say again, it's only for 6 months at the moment. Engage in the consultation processes happening (which should, let's be honest have happened much earlier), and try and see the positive side and join the revolution to improve the whole of Sydenham.

RJM
Posts: 129
Joined: 2 Jan 2016 15:30
Location: Sydenham

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by RJM »

There is now a petition to make Mayow Road safer:

http://chng.it/fdtGsjbDJt

Cathy
Posts: 119
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 11:20
Location: SE26

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by Cathy »

RJM - that is great news. Even though I am a Silverdale resident (with absolutely no ties to the Thorpes or whatever councillor it is) currently enjoying the benefits the bollards are having (when they are left alone), I will definitely be supporting this aspect too for Mayow Road. After all, we are all in this together and should be supporting each other rather than being so negative. Off now, to sign up.

Jacks
Posts: 34
Joined: 8 Jan 2014 23:15
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by Jacks »

RJM wrote:
25 Jul 2020 12:40
There is now a petition to make Mayow Road safer:

http://chng.it/fdtGsjbDJt
Signed, really hope this has a positive effect. It's unbelievable that changes haven't already been implemented. I wonder if Ellie Reeves and her team might be able to add some sway to it.

MET
Posts: 7
Joined: 26 Feb 2020 13:51

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by MET »

Great ideas - signed

owlwise
Posts: 219
Joined: 21 May 2012 13:54
Location: Upper Sydenham

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by owlwise »

Do you mean to close that off too? Has the world gone mad? Just wait till things get back to normal and schools are reopen. It will be traffic and pollution chaos. I despair for Sydenham I really do. It will become an unattractive place to live.

Mayowthorpe
Posts: 111
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Location: Sydenham

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by Mayowthorpe »

For all those complaining about the additional traffic on Sydenham Road and Mayow Road - the whole point is to encourage people to walk or cycle rather than drive. If you don't like being stuck in your car, think of the alternatives.

Parker1970
Posts: 435
Joined: 4 Nov 2014 22:36
Location: Kirkdale

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by Parker1970 »

Mayowthorpe wrote:
30 Jul 2020 12:09
For all those complaining about the additional traffic on Sydenham Road and Mayow Road - the whole point is to encourage people to walk or cycle rather than drive. If you don't like being stuck in your car, think of the alternatives.
My alternative would be...
Train to Clapham Junction
wait for connecting train
Train to Willesden Junciton
wait for connecting train
Bakerloo Line to Stonebridge park
20 min walk to office.
(Around 2 hours in total)

That's not much of an alternative sadly, nor could I cycle from South East to North West London.
The alternative is for me to move home, which I really don't want to do as my family are all in South London.

vbsydenham
Posts: 1702
Joined: 17 Nov 2016 10:40
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by vbsydenham »

Then consider how much smoother your car journey will be with significantly more people walking and cycling (i.e those who can and want to). It's not just about you.

Jacks
Posts: 34
Joined: 8 Jan 2014 23:15
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by Jacks »

owlwise wrote:
30 Jul 2020 09:12
Do you mean to close that off too? Has the world gone mad? Just wait till things get back to normal and schools are reopen. It will be traffic and pollution chaos. I despair for Sydenham I really do. It will become an unattractive place to live.
Not at all, The petition says it is to introduce traffic calming measures, a speed camera and safe pedestrian crossings on Mayow Road.

Jacks
Posts: 34
Joined: 8 Jan 2014 23:15
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Consultation on Proposal to Close Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe Road to traffic

Post by Jacks »

Parker1970 wrote:
30 Jul 2020 12:43
Mayowthorpe wrote:
30 Jul 2020 12:09
For all those complaining about the additional traffic on Sydenham Road and Mayow Road - the whole point is to encourage people to walk or cycle rather than drive. If you don't like being stuck in your car, think of the alternatives.
My alternative would be...
Train to Clapham Junction
wait for connecting train
Train to Willesden Junciton
wait for connecting train
Bakerloo Line to Stonebridge park
20 min walk to office.
(Around 2 hours in total)

That's not much of an alternative sadly, nor could I cycle from South East to North West London.
The alternative is for me to move home, which I really don't want to do as my family are all in South London.
Your journey will far improve with fewer cars on the road as more people who can walk or cycle.

Have you considered, for days you may not wish to drive (everyone needs a day without a car occasionally!) going through central London? You can get toStonebridge Park From sydenham station in an hour and 10, even quicker if you cycled to penge east and got the train from there! And the simplest option would be bike/walk to lower sydenham and go straight into Waterloo and pick up the bakerloo there. Admittedly you have one of the longer commutes across london but hopefully these are some good alternatives to moving house if you decide to try and reduce car use sometime.

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