They could just go to the 'hypermarket' next door and buy a few shrubs and it would look a lot better in no time... 
(although the actual red brick construction isn't pretty I agree)RENEWED HIGH STREET PROPOSALS
High street
That planer outside the post office is awful ...who is responsible for putting plants in it? They could just go to the 'hypermarket' next door and buy a few shrubs and it would look a lot better in no time... (although the actual red brick construction isn't pretty I agree)
They could just go to the 'hypermarket' next door and buy a few shrubs and it would look a lot better in no time... (although the actual red brick construction isn't pretty I agree)Lewisham Council / Enviroworks
I just got an email from Lewisham's Green Team:
Enviroworks is the organisation running the polytunnels in Mayow Park along the edge with Bishopsthorpe Road.We have already commissioned Enviroworks to replant and maintain the planters in Sydenham Road. I have spoken to Peter Ranken about their current condition and he has assured me the work will start shortly.
It'd be great to see hanging baskets in all of the empty posts (that have hooks) that are on the high street, it's sorely missing some green.
I was thinking about the proposals walking down Penge High Street a few days ago, take a look at that next time you're there, some of it works & some doesn't, worth seeing for what Sydenham might be before they spend the money. I guess they'll never please everyone though, the squares are a nice idea. There needs to be places for cars to drop off or park if we want people to shop in Sydenham rather than pass through to help sustain new shops. I'd also like to see bicycle parking bays up & down the high street.
Oh & lets not forget Lower Sydenham in all of this, where exactly does the High Street work end because am I right in thinking the regeneration doesn't even go past the Dolphin? We haven't received the proposals in the post, can we request them or print the PDF & send it in?
I was thinking about the proposals walking down Penge High Street a few days ago, take a look at that next time you're there, some of it works & some doesn't, worth seeing for what Sydenham might be before they spend the money. I guess they'll never please everyone though, the squares are a nice idea. There needs to be places for cars to drop off or park if we want people to shop in Sydenham rather than pass through to help sustain new shops. I'd also like to see bicycle parking bays up & down the high street.
Oh & lets not forget Lower Sydenham in all of this, where exactly does the High Street work end because am I right in thinking the regeneration doesn't even go past the Dolphin? We haven't received the proposals in the post, can we request them or print the PDF & send it in?
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GLOBAL THINKER
- Posts: 177
- Joined: 2 Nov 2004 13:20
- Location: SYDENHAM
This is a message I posted on the forum 10 December 2006 addressing Chris Best.
I feel it sends a very clear message that beyond Mayow Road is not worth considering because the occupants do not have as much money nor influence. If this is the case, Lewishams labour council has a very skewed view of an "all inclusive society". If the proposals go ahead the difference between the regenerated and non regenerated parts the high street will be more obvious than ever, which will no doubt enforce the perception of a "Upper" and "Lower" Sydenham. I pay my taxes like everyone else why am I not entitled to new paving stones, flowers etc.
Whilst we can wait and hope the regeneration has a "trickle down effect" it would have been more effective to include the whole of Sydenham Road and consequently the whole of Sydenham.
Naturally people are going to respond to surveys etc if it effects them directly, I'd imagine you would not get much of a response from the residents beyond Mayow Road about the shiny new high street that will not directly benefit them in any way but will benefit the homeowners living in some of the most expensive housing in Sydenham.
Little wonder there has not been much input from the majority of residents starting with the walks down the high street and ending in this proposal
Whilst I am wholeheartedly in agreement with the the regeneration of Sydenham high street I am very disappointed that the plan does not extend beyond Mayow Road.Hi Chris,
The area between Cobbs Corner and Mayow Road has some the most expensive housing in Sydenham. As the talk is of "millions" with regards to investment, surely the area past Mayow Road towards Bell Green is in need of more investment? What are the plans for these areas in the grand scheme of things??
I feel it sends a very clear message that beyond Mayow Road is not worth considering because the occupants do not have as much money nor influence. If this is the case, Lewishams labour council has a very skewed view of an "all inclusive society". If the proposals go ahead the difference between the regenerated and non regenerated parts the high street will be more obvious than ever, which will no doubt enforce the perception of a "Upper" and "Lower" Sydenham. I pay my taxes like everyone else why am I not entitled to new paving stones, flowers etc.
Whilst we can wait and hope the regeneration has a "trickle down effect" it would have been more effective to include the whole of Sydenham Road and consequently the whole of Sydenham.
Naturally people are going to respond to surveys etc if it effects them directly, I'd imagine you would not get much of a response from the residents beyond Mayow Road about the shiny new high street that will not directly benefit them in any way but will benefit the homeowners living in some of the most expensive housing in Sydenham.
Little wonder there has not been much input from the majority of residents starting with the walks down the high street and ending in this proposal
sydenham regeneration
The points you make are quite right Global thinker, that area desperately needs improving, but I guess they had to start somewhere, doing the whole lot would have cost maybe double the amount they are bidding for, I am guessing. I very much doubt that the high street past Mayow road will not benefit, it would look silly in the end if the top of the high street was all shiny and new and then suddenly was't.
Maybe some of the ideas could be easily implemented by the council further down the high street at a later date, ie, more trees and planting. Grants to spruce up shop fronts etc.
As far as Bell Green is concerned, maybe they should have secured some money from Sainsburys and (should from any future builders on the site and any other in Sydenham for that matter - even agreeing to plant a tree or two or plant shrubs nearby), that could be used to improve that area. I think something similar has been agreed with developers along Perry Vale, near Forest Hill station, but maybe this will be more difficult now as property developers are surely being affected by the credit crunch and it looks like they are having trouble attracting anyone to the Bell Green site anyway.
Maybe some of the ideas could be easily implemented by the council further down the high street at a later date, ie, more trees and planting. Grants to spruce up shop fronts etc.
As far as Bell Green is concerned, maybe they should have secured some money from Sainsburys and (should from any future builders on the site and any other in Sydenham for that matter - even agreeing to plant a tree or two or plant shrubs nearby), that could be used to improve that area. I think something similar has been agreed with developers along Perry Vale, near Forest Hill station, but maybe this will be more difficult now as property developers are surely being affected by the credit crunch and it looks like they are having trouble attracting anyone to the Bell Green site anyway.
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annabel mclaren
- Posts: 115
- Joined: 1 Oct 2004 19:55
- Location: thorpes
Ian Plowright, the project manager for the improvement scheme for Sydenham Rd, has given presentations to the Sydenham Road Community Partnership meetings (the forerunner of the Sydenham Assembly) at which he has talked about working on a bid to Transport for London for funds for an improvement scheme for the section of Sydenham Rd from Mayow Rd to Bell Green. I should think he will be attending the exhibition and public meetings to discuss the tabled proposals on the dates listed in the consultation leaflet, on Thurs 15 May, 5-8pm, Sat 17 May 10am-2pm (exhibitions with the chance to talk to designers and LBL staff) and the two public forums (Sat 17 May, 2-4pm) and Thurs 22 May (7-9pm). I agree it must be incredibly annoying to see the improvements terminate just short of the top of your road (and before the Dartmouth Arms took over the Dolphin they said much the same thing!) but I think now is the time to press for a 'phase 2'.
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Blushingsnail
- Posts: 73
- Joined: 20 Jul 2006 10:38
- Location: Forest Hill
Re: sydenham regeneration
Weren't the improvements to the river behind the Bell Green store partly funded by Sainsbury's? I've been down there a couple of times and it's lovely - well worth a visit if you've never been.poppy wrote:... As far as Bell Green is concerned, maybe they should have secured some money from Sainsburys ... that could be used to improve that area. ...
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Pat Trembath
- Posts: 613
- Joined: 2 Oct 2004 10:54
At the very end of the questionaire is a short paragraph which states: "Transport for London is also providing funding to improve safety, cycling provison and bus stops along the remainder of Sydenham Road. Proposals will be published later in the year. These will be on a smaller scale than our proposals for the Hgh Street" which sounds positive as I believe this will also include new paving.
As I understand it, it is also proposed to link the traffic lights from Cobbs Corner to Bell Green, which should provide for a better traffic flow throughout the area as a whole.
As I understand it, it is also proposed to link the traffic lights from Cobbs Corner to Bell Green, which should provide for a better traffic flow throughout the area as a whole.
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scott.l.hamilton
- Posts: 120
- Joined: 28 Jan 2008 11:51
- Location: SE26
A week ago I walked Sydenham road with Tim Lund and Admin to take a detailed look at the proposal and to discuss positives and negatives of the proposal. The exercise proved very useful and interesting and I think Admin is working (correct me if I am mistaken) on a response to be submitted by the 2nd of June ( and I am available to help Tim or Admin further as necessary). While I understand that many are "underwhelmed" by the proposal, there are some good ideas in it, even if they do need some refining. Based on the various discussions and the references in the proposal to the rest of Sydenham road, there is certainly mention of further phases of the project. This is simply the beginning of the "regeneration" of the high street and it is starting with the Sydenham Station area. With the ELL extension and station "upgrade" this is a natural starting point. Also, please remember that this is TFL money ( from Ken and now Boris ) not council money for "area improvement".
In my humble opinion, the way forward should be to determine specifically what is "GOOD" with the proposal and what is "BAD" with the proposal. We can then argue that what is "BAD", should be removed and the money saved could be used to do more of what we feel is "GOOD" or to be applied towards other "projects / ideas" that we feel were missed / ignored. And to ensure that it is understood that we expect the rest of the High street to be addressed in the next phases. Which they have already stated will happen.
Lets focus on the proposal they have given us and improve upon it as possible to get the best result with the money being allocated. Sydenham does not want to lose this money and opportunity! And as we all know, once money is being spent on a project more money tends to follow and it is easier to increase the scope of the project (ie. the rest of the road).
So, towards that end;
What are the specifics of the proposal that are "GOOD" and should be kept?
What is "BAD" (specifically) and should be eliminated?
What can be included in the specified geographic area and add to the proposal?
I have given my answer to ADMIN and Tim and will continue to do what I can to assist them in moving forward. Forward momentum is essential...
) not council money for "area improvement".In my humble opinion, the way forward should be to determine specifically what is "GOOD" with the proposal and what is "BAD" with the proposal. We can then argue that what is "BAD", should be removed and the money saved could be used to do more of what we feel is "GOOD" or to be applied towards other "projects / ideas" that we feel were missed / ignored. And to ensure that it is understood that we expect the rest of the High street to be addressed in the next phases. Which they have already stated will happen.
Lets focus on the proposal they have given us and improve upon it as possible to get the best result with the money being allocated. Sydenham does not want to lose this money and opportunity! And as we all know, once money is being spent on a project more money tends to follow and it is easier to increase the scope of the project (ie. the rest of the road).
So, towards that end;
What are the specifics of the proposal that are "GOOD" and should be kept?
What is "BAD" (specifically) and should be eliminated?
What can be included in the specified geographic area and add to the proposal?
I have given my answer to ADMIN and Tim and will continue to do what I can to assist them in moving forward. Forward momentum is essential...
Talking with the High Street Renewal Proposals
I think mine was the third name signed in at the Naborhood Centre last night to look at the exhibition of the proposals, and one more came in later. So a good opportunity for me to talk to Ian Plowright, who is the lead Lewisham planner on this project. I passed on to him the general feel from this thread that people were largely underwhelmed, even if supporting what there was. I also suggested to him that he might learn something from looking at this thread - which he acknowledged, since he'd actually sent the consultation document as a pdf, now available for viewing from Admin's earlier post. I even suggested he might contribute - to which he said his mind was boggling at how Lewisham's communications department would react if he did. But c'mon - you can use an alias! Welcome to the 21st century! Seriously, Lewisham and other councils are going to have to learn how to use media such as this.
Moving to specifics, nothing much emerged that was not in the consultation document, although they did confirm what I think most people know, which is that what can be done is very constrained by the need to maintain traffic flow - in particular allowing Transport for London to get their bus services through.
However, I'm worried about how we make the pocket park ideas work, especially at Venner Road. It sounds as if problems will arise from making changes to parking and car access arrangements for existing businesses, and attracting the right new businesses. I feel there should be a way to resolve problems, but the whole decision making process seems so slow, and involve different parts of the council, that people will give up.
Now - here's a new speculative thought. When Admin, Scott and I did our Sydenham Road walk, it suddenly struck me that the old sorting office in Silverdale looked just like a market hall. Does anyone know what plans are for it now? Could it attract stalls, be effectively integrated into these plans for Sydenham Road regeneration? It's proximity to the station is a big plus - how much of a problem is the traffic on Silverdale - officially a 'distibutor' road - so expected in the models used for this exercise to have a certain continued level of traffic.
Moving to specifics, nothing much emerged that was not in the consultation document, although they did confirm what I think most people know, which is that what can be done is very constrained by the need to maintain traffic flow - in particular allowing Transport for London to get their bus services through.
However, I'm worried about how we make the pocket park ideas work, especially at Venner Road. It sounds as if problems will arise from making changes to parking and car access arrangements for existing businesses, and attracting the right new businesses. I feel there should be a way to resolve problems, but the whole decision making process seems so slow, and involve different parts of the council, that people will give up.
Now - here's a new speculative thought. When Admin, Scott and I did our Sydenham Road walk, it suddenly struck me that the old sorting office in Silverdale looked just like a market hall. Does anyone know what plans are for it now? Could it attract stalls, be effectively integrated into these plans for Sydenham Road regeneration? It's proximity to the station is a big plus - how much of a problem is the traffic on Silverdale - officially a 'distibutor' road - so expected in the models used for this exercise to have a certain continued level of traffic.
I am a little underwelmed by the plans- and have difficulty understanding why these fairly minor common sense changes to the high street are taking so long to implement! I'm also a bit disappointed that the Dolphin -Bell Green stretch is being neglected- although I understand that the shopping/station end ought to take priority. The area around the Kent House Road junction could be so pretty with a little facelift. The shop fronts need a some tlc and the buildings above could do with a paint. Also the Prince Alfred could do with a spruce- the black frontage does it no favours and the picture of Prince Alfred reminds me of Mr Beans interpretation of Whistler's Mother.
Quite excited about the pocket squares though- does anyone know what is happening with the old HSBC building. If the square in Venner Road went ahead the building woudl partly face onto it, and would make a great restaurant with a little outside seating.
If TFL are so keen to ensure buses can get down the highstreet can't they at least get the 176 to actually enter the higstreet rather than skirt aroudn it. Us poor folks in Lower Sydenham have no Zone 1 bound bus service!
Quite excited about the pocket squares though- does anyone know what is happening with the old HSBC building. If the square in Venner Road went ahead the building woudl partly face onto it, and would make a great restaurant with a little outside seating.
If TFL are so keen to ensure buses can get down the highstreet can't they at least get the 176 to actually enter the higstreet rather than skirt aroudn it. Us poor folks in Lower Sydenham have no Zone 1 bound bus service!
high street
I am very disappointed at how few trees are proposed. The planners are blaming under ground services but Lordship Lane in East Dulwich looks like it has had lots of new trees planted in the last couple of years, why would our high street's services be any different?
And its the parts of the high street which have no greenery (for example around Somerfield) at the moment, which do not set to gain any from the current plans.
As I have said numerous times, greenery is fundamental to making an area feel loved and cared for and softens hard edges. Just look at Bromley borough, a lot of the architecture is pretty bland but actually looks quite pretty because of the very high investment put into landscaping.
And its the parts of the high street which have no greenery (for example around Somerfield) at the moment, which do not set to gain any from the current plans.
As I have said numerous times, greenery is fundamental to making an area feel loved and cared for and softens hard edges. Just look at Bromley borough, a lot of the architecture is pretty bland but actually looks quite pretty because of the very high investment put into landscaping.