Fairlawn Park Stabbing

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simon
Posts: 930
Joined: 11 Oct 2006 15:35
Location: Longton Avenue

Re: Fairlawn Park Stabbing

Post by simon »

Without going into all the politics above and speaking as a Guardian, FT, Racing Post, Irish Times and South London Press reader, as if that is at all relevant, I think the approach of the SNT is probably the best one.

The aim is to target youths on the periphery of gang culture and offer them alternatives, or as Gurka puts it; “more opportunities for young people”, while at the same time coming down hard on those who are already immersed that culture.

The regeneration of Hone Park is an attempt at the first and the sentencing of 8 teenagers for 10 years each for GBH in Bellingham recently is an example of the second.

I’m glad the lad sounds like he will pull through and my first thoughts are with his family. I also hope the perpetrators are caught and dealt with accordingly.

gurka
Posts: 59
Joined: 21 Jul 2009 15:05
Location: South East

Re: Fairlawn Park Stabbing

Post by gurka »

Well said Simon, I didn't really have the time to go into a long explanation for BBW but I will do tonight. Not one single solution will work, it will need to be a combination of different scheme's (e.g. similar to princes trust / mentoring / youth development / and much tougher sentencing etc) but I will explain in depth later.

notfairlawn
Posts: 4
Joined: 29 Jul 2010 12:52
Location: Fairlawn Park

Re: Fairlawn Park Stabbing

Post by notfairlawn »

You are encouraged to speak to any member of the Safer Neighbourhoods team who pass by your house regularly as part of their local duties.
By pass regularly, you mean in the hours up to 8pm? Please don't think I am dirtying what the SNT do as when they are available they are great, but with It seems most incidents I have encountered as a resident of Fairlawn Park seem to happen after this time. Which makes it hard for anyone to maintain control of the feral youth. Beside this, I personally do not want our street to become a contained easily policed ghetto for youth to run amok, things have to change. I want to enjoy living on Fairlawn Park, not dread turning the corner everyday.

I am personally fed up of living in a street that seems to be on a steep decline. I have spoken to residents on the road that have been here for years, watching the street get slowly worse. It seems that there is nothing that can be done, why are Housing Associations not held to account for actions of their tenants?

What do other residents feel about this situation?

There seems to be a total lack of respect and understanding from all youths that parade the road, with a complete disregard for private property, surely because their parents do not teach them true values or respect for their elders (crazy thought i know!).

I know that this is not the thread to really vent these feelings, especially as I know Charlie (the young and friendly kid that was stabbed), but people here have made some interesting statements, which seem to be along the lines of how I am feeling.

What I need is for Hyde Housing and Lewisham Council to start taking responsibility....... but will this ever happen?

Rachael
Posts: 2443
Joined: 23 Jan 2010 13:42
Location: Sydenham / Forest Hill Intersection

Re: Fairlawn Park Stabbing

Post by Rachael »

I've had kids at Our Lady and St Philip Neri school, at the corner of Fairlawn Park, for quite a few years now. I'm no shrinking violet - I grew up in Belfast in the 1970s, I've lived all over London and in New York for many years. I know when to keep my head down and when to speak up. I'm realistic about life in the city. And yet I have found myself becoming quite uncomfortable with the atmosphere in Fairlawn Park in the past 12 months. There are always kids hanging around on bikes. No problem with that - kids have to hang somewhere. But they quite often shout abuse at the parents and carers picking up their kids. No pleasant. One evening I was picking my son up from cubs and two older boys were trying to climb over the gate to get into the playground where the cubs were playing. I told them to get down and then had to leg it to my car and lock the doors as they were coming after me (I'm only little, they were at least a foot taller than me!).

I recently had a woman basically hold me hostage by double parking over my car, because I had dared to park outside her house. She screamed and shouted and got right into my face, with my son standing beside me. People came out of their houses to support her. I know it's a pain when people park in your street and there are some parents at our school who double park and block the road and generally behave appallingly. I can understand if the residents get fed up. But this was something else altogether - and really quite frightening. A parent was mugged in the playground a few months ago while waiting for their kids to come out of after school club. Police cars are regularly flying up the street and it looks like there are regular drugs raids. The kids at the school notice all of this and are getting nervous. They were even worried about having sports day in Home Park.

I'm mentioning all this because it was never like this before, in all the years my kids have been at the school. It's only in the last 12-18 months that it has got like this. The two big questions are: why has this happened, and what can be done?

lbere
Posts: 238
Joined: 6 Sep 2006 16:11
Location: se26

Re: Fairlawn Park Stabbing

Post by lbere »

My children also attended/attend Our Lady and St Philip Neri. We have not experienced any of the problems stated by rsdunlop but are aware of what went on. The Scouts who use the school in the evening have had many problems with the 'kids' who hang around. I dont live on Fairlawn but very near by but will not let my children walk to Scouts on their own, which is silly yes, but if anything happened to them I would never forgive myself. My older son was approached at 7.20am one morning going to school by the Church, by one of them who he later recognised as being from Fairlawn, who was after money and his phone.

People are worried and fed up of these kids taking 'over the road' but you do not dare approach them or even look at them. My children will not even walk from our house to my mums house because of them, and I dont blame them.

Hyde Housing and the Council need to look at how they place 'families'. I cant believe that these families arrive on the road and them decide to be anti-social. Hyde Housing and the Council need to look at whom they are re-housing, why they are being re-housed and look at the familes already in that road.

Its a sad string of events that have happened, but we all said it would happen many years ago, the writing was on the wall and no one stepped into put a halt to it. As someone else said on here, the next thing will be guns.

bigbadwolf
Posts: 726
Joined: 7 Jan 2008 21:21
Location: Forest Hill and Sydenham

Re: Fairlawn Park Stabbing

Post by bigbadwolf »

I didn't really have the time to go into a long explanation for BBW but I will do tonight.


What's any of this got to do with me? This is the first contribution I've made on this tragic, yet already quarrelsome thread.

GLOBAL THINKER
Posts: 148
Joined: 2 Nov 2004 13:20
Location: SYDENHAM

Re: Fairlawn Park Stabbing

Post by GLOBAL THINKER »

There is a Community Meeting tonight (29th July) from 5.30 - 7 pm at Sydenham Library where you can meet the SNT, Youth Services and Housing Officers. If you are a Fairlawn Park resident please come along and air your views.

Rachael
Posts: 2443
Joined: 23 Jan 2010 13:42
Location: Sydenham / Forest Hill Intersection

Re: Fairlawn Park Stabbing

Post by Rachael »

bigbadwolf wrote:
I didn't really have the time to go into a long explanation for BBW but I will do tonight.


What's any of this got to do with me? This is the first contribution I've made on this tragic, yet already quarrelsome thread.
Your reputation precedes you, Wolfie, to the point where it arrives on the thread before you do. Or a case of mistaken identity.

Is that community meeting open to all who have an interest in the area, Global, like parents from the school?

notfairlawn
Posts: 4
Joined: 29 Jul 2010 12:52
Location: Fairlawn Park

Re: Fairlawn Park Stabbing

Post by notfairlawn »

Would love to attend, but working until 6pm doesn't make this doable for me or my partner. A Saturday meet would be more beneficial. I also feel that having Hyde Housing Tenants invited as well may muzzle any free thought about Hyde Housings attitude for attendees, but maybe that's just me. I hope the meeting is fruitful and I would love you to post any results/minutes Global Thinker if possible?

Thanks.

GLOBAL THINKER
Posts: 148
Joined: 2 Nov 2004 13:20
Location: SYDENHAM

Re: Fairlawn Park Stabbing

Post by GLOBAL THINKER »

I also feel that having Hyde Housing Tenants invited as well may muzzle any free thought about Hyde Housings attitude for attendees,
At this stage of the game there really isn't much to lose. It can't get any worse than murder. This is not how we are supposed to live. Hyde Housing must have a process in place for special circumstances such as this.

notfairlawn
Posts: 4
Joined: 29 Jul 2010 12:52
Location: Fairlawn Park

Re: Fairlawn Park Stabbing

Post by notfairlawn »

ha, totally Global, makes my post sound stupid. Things have gotten way out of control, there does need to be a resolution, and it does need to come from Hyde Housing, Lets hope they decide to sell all there property on Fairlawn, so we can get back to having a peaceful road to live on, or is that a wish too far?

TheDon
Posts: 18
Joined: 19 Jun 2008 08:34
Location: Fairlawn Park

Re: Fairlawn Park Stabbing

Post by TheDon »

How interesting yesterday I posted a negative comment about the yobs in Fairlawn Park and was met with the metaphorical raised eyebrows of hear we go again. And today it’s a different story, with not many people advocating hugging a hoodie, in fact more and more people are prepared to share their experiences of what Fairlawn park means to them and some don’t even live in the street! I understand that the problem of housing these families is not of Hydes making because Lewisham council tell who to take and they do not have a choice but to accept them. Hyde then have to police the behavior of their tenants then has to deal with the complaints they receive. I don’t want to be an apologist for Hyde but they have shown a willingness to listen to the concerns of the residents. Last year when meetings were arranged between the residents, SNT, Lewisham Council and the residents Lewisham didn’t bother to send anyone such was their concern about our problems. But that is what I have come to expect from this council.

To be fair there is not a lot Hyde can do unless the residents come forward and be prepared to act as a witness but as things currently stand no-one is prepared to especially the owner occupiers as they can’t move away once their houses are attacked and their cars are damaged. I know of one resident who complained about the youths and had their car window put in for their troubles.

Global thinker I would love to attend this meeting but like others who post on here I work full time so can’t make it, unlike the people who are causing the problems who will probably be there in force. Also I don’t see what can be gained in attending because if it like the one mentioned above anyone who dared to express a view about the problems will be shouted down and veiled threats delivered. The perception among the Hyde residents is that the owner occupiers think they are better than them and want them out of the street, well they may be right but its only because the quality of life in the street has worsened since Lewisham have taken over responsibility for housing in this street. I will stop now but before I do I want to say that it is only a small number of residents who are a problem the vast majority get on with their lives without troubling anyone and I am sure that Hyde and Lewisham know who they are which begs the question why they don't do anything.

notfairlawn
Posts: 4
Joined: 29 Jul 2010 12:52
Location: Fairlawn Park

Re: Fairlawn Park Stabbing

Post by notfairlawn »

TheDon, It was actually your post and like minded feeling that prompted me to say how I was feeling, I wish more people would do the same. I was saddened to not be able to attend this evenings meeting as I am fed up with certain families/tenants dragging the neighbourhood down.

I do agree that not all Hyde families are trouble and I do now agree that Hyde are not really to blame. Me and my partner have filled in numerous Hyde diary sheets which don't seem to have done anything to deter parents from letting their kids rule the road. It seems to be a case of the council doing what ever they want to make sure they are meeting the correct targets for the year.

I am upset that we have to put up with this situation, when we spend all of our time earning to make sure we can live here. This isn't a way to live, i hope the meeting this evening produced a little light at the end of the long dark tunnel, or at least nudged Lewisham Council to sit up and take notice. Perhaps its time for Fairlawn residents vs the government!

GLOBAL THINKER
Posts: 148
Joined: 2 Nov 2004 13:20
Location: SYDENHAM

Re: Fairlawn Park Stabbing

Post by GLOBAL THINKER »

I attended the meeting this evening and spoke to two representatives from Hyde and gave them my views of what was and is happening in Fairlawn Park. Briefly this was what we discussed.

The standard of living for all residents has deteriorated in the last few years; people do not enjoy coming home to Fairlawn Park and some feel imitated walking the street.
The value of our homes has dropped significantly due to the behaviour of a few residents.
Hyde has put considerable time and resources into those families that have caused the majority of the problems we face with little impact, perhaps it was now time for Hyde to take into consideration the feelings of the residents and the impact that their tenants have had on all the people who not only live here but use the area around Fairlawn Park i.e. Scout Groups, allotment holders reluctant to use the rear entrance.

Personally I expressed concern and anger that after so many years and so many complaints certain residents were still able to continue to live in Fairlawn Park and the fact that they were still here seems to have given them the idea that Hyde is in effect a toothless tiger when it comes to dealing with anti social behaviour, violence, intimidation and drugs (my thoughts).

An idea mentioned was for Hyde to collect impact statements from all residents about how the last few years has affected them and their families and for this information to be used when Hyde build a case for eviction (bearing in mind if people do this they must be prepared to put their names forward, by doing this anonymously greatly reduces Hydes ability to follow through with the legal process which is lengthy but quite frankly worth it).

This forum was brought to their attention and I said it would be worth their while reading through the comments to get a general view of peoples thoughts and feelings.

TheDon
Posts: 18
Joined: 19 Jun 2008 08:34
Location: Fairlawn Park

Re: Fairlawn Park Stabbing

Post by TheDon »

Global thinker thanks for the feedback from the meeting. It will be interesting to see if Hyde will actually look at this forum and perhaps they could log on in the same way British gas does to keep us informed of the roadworks. Were there many residents from Fairlawn Park at the meeting and did you get the impression that Hyde housing will take the problems with their tenants seriously? Or were just paying lip service. More importantly was there anyone from Lewisham council there I ask because it is Lewisham who provide Hyde with the tenants and I hold them responsible for our problems. As it has been already been said it is unlikely that these tenants suddenly become problem families when they move into the street. I apologise for all the questions and I know that I should gone to the meeting myself if I was that interested but as I said previously I was at work and I need more than 2 hours notice if I have to leave early.

GLOBAL THINKER
Posts: 148
Joined: 2 Nov 2004 13:20
Location: SYDENHAM

Re: Fairlawn Park Stabbing

Post by GLOBAL THINKER »

No there were not many residents and yes my feeling was that Hyde do take the problems with their tenants seriously and share our fustrations, saying that I did say that they should be more proactive and maybe think about changing their procedures so that they are more able to deal with problem tenants a lot more swiftly. Unfortunately there were no reps from Lewisham Council but the SNT and Police were out in force. I will contact the two ladies I spoke to and confirm that I can pass on their email and contact details to interested residents. They may post them directly onto the forum though not 100% sure.

Shirley
Posts: 2
Joined: 29 Apr 2010 20:53
Location: Fairlawn Park

Re: Fairlawn Park Stabbing

Post by Shirley »

I am a Hyde resident, and have lived here for many years. Fairlawn Park was considered to be one of Hydes' premier locations when we moved here, people got along well together, both private,and Hyde residents, and there was a lovely atmosphere. I too have a sinking feeling when I return home from work, the atmosphere is not good at all. I attended the meeting tonight, and made my feelings known to Hydes' officers. I also brought up the idea of CCTV , as all else seems to have failed. It was felt that a petition from the residents of Fairlawn Park would be the most effective way forwards. If nothing else it may well act as a deterrent.

Wispy Wonder
Posts: 137
Joined: 11 Jan 2006 22:13
Location: Sydenham

Re: Fairlawn Park Stabbing

Post by Wispy Wonder »

According to Hyde's website, they make several promises to their tenants, including to:
- Listen and respond quickly when you get in touch.
- Treat reports of antisocial behaviour seriously, sensitively and in confidence - and then help resolve the situation quickly.

I don't know how Hyde operates, but from what I know of other housing associations, they don't want complaints to escalate because board members then have to become involved. If I lived in Fairlawn, I'd collect what evidence I could and badger the association endlessly, and encourage my neighbours to do the same. Its awful that the area is effectively being held by ransom my mindless yobs and their landlord.

Do any Hyde residents have contact details for anyone senior there, that this link could be forwarded to? It would be interesting to hear their response to all this.

admin
Site Admin
Posts: 2549
Joined: 20 Sep 2004 21:49

Re: Fairlawn Park Stabbing

Post by admin »

This is a truly horrible crime which is exposing to us further afield of a difficult situation in FP which is bound to bring out very deep fears, feelings and much more.

First can I thank everyone for the restraint you have shown in expressing your views of the situation without dodging the really serious issues. If there is one ray of hope it is the considered, mature and thoughtful responses here. Translate that into action and may be you can move forward.

There will be differences (and not just in newspaper readership) and this is also an on going serious crime investigation where speculation is dangerous. Normally an admin would limit comment because of the dangers of someone 'losing it' and inflaming the situation further.

However I really feel that the only way out of this is for you to get together, sort or understand your differences, and then put united pressure where it will be effective - and get support from the rest of Sydenham too. So please do continue to discuss and agree on actions to improve. Whilst there is probably a lot of blame to spread round too - this might be better left till later especially if those may be some of the same people we need to convince to take action.

Hence I hope this continues to be a positive discussion with this my only intervention ... just please be careful that any criticism of local people does not make them personally identifiable for obvious reasons.

Admin

GillM
Posts: 61
Joined: 5 Dec 2007 00:23
Location: Fairlawn Park

Re: Fairlawn Park Stabbing

Post by GillM »

rshdunlop wrote:
I recently had a woman basically hold me hostage by double parking over my car, because I had dared to park outside her house. She screamed and shouted and got right into my face, with my son standing beside me. People came out of their houses to support her. I know it's a pain when people park in your street and there are some parents at our school who double park and block the road and generally behave appallingly. I can understand if the residents get fed up. But this was something else altogether - and really quite frightening. A parent was mugged in the playground a few months ago while waiting for their kids to come out of after school club. Police cars are regularly flying up the street and it looks like there are regular drugs raids. The kids at the school notice all of this and are getting nervous. They were even worried about having sports day in Home Park.
rsdunlop; I saw the incident with you parking and I can assure you and other readers that no residents came out of their house to support this woman!!! I looked out to see what the commotion was and then went back inside! I agree with you that she acted awful to you but there was no support for her. And yes the parents that dangerously double park each day outside St Phillips is appalling. I am surprised the school condone it. This is an accident waiting to happen.

I have lived here for 28 years and police cars do not regularly fly round here on drugs raids. Fairlawn Park is a lovely road with a very small number of known "yoofs" and i am talking about maybe 3/4 families out of approx 180 houses. I woud say that an average of 99.9% of families that live here are law abiding people. In all the years I have lived here I have never heard of any burlaries and our car has never been vandalised or stolen, more than I can say for some roads in Sydenham.

Lets not forget that the two recent incidents ie. Nick and the latest boy were done from outside influences (the latter I assume as the police say a red car pulled up and two black youths chased the boy). I have also seen the boys that hang around St Phillips and I have never recognised them from Fairlawn Park so please don;t assume they live here.

I really feel sorry for the Friends of Home Park who have done so much to get the park back to looking brilliant and stories like this just take away the good that they have done. Also the residents association who last year really tackled the problem with the kids that were causing trouble.

Hyde and Lewisham council are so much to blame for the reputation of Fairlawn park, because they let some houses to a few known problem families in the hope that moving them on to a lovely street will make them be better tenants. I am afraid that aint never going to happen...never has and never will. And I will re-itterate a FEW problem families and I am not tarring any other Hyde tenants with the same brush!!

I am here most days and see the community police walking or riding on their bikes in the street. They need to be doing this at night especially now that the kids are on holiday. I would also encourage all residents to phone the police should they see a crowd of youths hanging about in our road and get them moved on. Perhaps a curfew of some sorts maybe an idea but then who would know as I said before the community police don't patrol here at night.

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