News: More Long trains from the 12th of June

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back_ache
Posts: 84
Joined: 7 Jan 2005 18:00
Location: North-West Sydenham

News: More Long trains from the 12th of June

Post by back_ache »

News that is sure to be welcome to "cattle truck" customers of peak time rail travel to London Bridge :-
Len Duvall, Labour's London Assembly Member for Lewisham and Greenwich, said he had secured the extra capacity following complaints from commuters in Brockley.

Mr Duvall said: "I am pleased Southern has listened to our concerns. "It is great news that finally many rush-hour trains calling at Brockley will soon be formed of the maximum eight coaches." The changes will also be of benefit to passengers at Sydenham, Forest Hill, Honor Oak Park and New Cross Gate stations.
Source icSouthLondon

Lenduvall
Posts: 9
Joined: 8 Jun 2006 10:42
Location: Sydenham

Re: longer trains

Post by Lenduvall »

Just to provide you with more detail - I have been pressurising Southern to run longer trains on this line for some time. I know that it is often difficult to board a train in the rush hour, especially further along the line. What makes it even more frustrating is that often the rush hour trains are only formed of six or even four coaches.

Southern have now informed me that from 12 June 2006, rush hour trains running on this line, will benefit from extra carriages. Services to benefit from 12 June 2006 include:

To London Bridge
· 2 extra coaches 0728 from West Croydon via Sydenham calling at Norwood Jnc (0732), Anerley (0735), Penge West (0737), Sydenham (0740), Forest Hill (0742), Honor Oak Park (0745), Brockley (0747), New Cross Gate (0750) and London Bridge
· 2 extra coaches 0745 from Streatham Hill via Sydenham arrives 0816 calling at West Norwood (0748), Gipsy Hill (0751), Crystal Palace (0754), Sydenham (0757), Forest Hill (0759), Honor Oak Park (0802), Brockley (0804). New Cross Gate (0807) and London Bridge
· 2 extra coaches 0800 from Epsom Downs via Sydenham arrives 0846
· 2 extra coaches 0859 from West Croydon via Sydenham arrives 0929 calling at Norwood Junction (0903), Anerley (0906), Penge West (0908), Sydenham (0911), Forest Hill (0913), Honor Oak Park (0916), Brockley (0918), New Cross Gate (0921) and London Bridge

From London Bridge

· 2 extra coaches 1655 To Victoria via Crystal Palace calling at New Cross Gate, Brockley, Honor Oak Park, Forest Hill, Sydenham, Crystal Palace, Gipsy Hill, West Norwood, Streatham Hill, Balham, Wandsworth Common, Clapham Junction, Battersea Park and London Victoria

From Victoria

· 2 extra coaches 1622 To London Bridge via Crystal Palace calling at Battersea Park, Clapham Junction, Wandsworth Common, Balham, Streatham Hill, West Norwood, Gipsy Hill, Crystal Palace, Sydenham, Forest Hill, Honor Oak Park, Brockley, New Cross Gate and London Bridge
· 2 extra coaches 1719 To London Bridge via Crystal Palace calling at Battersea Park, Clapham Junction, Wandsworth Common, Balham, Streatham Hill, West Norwood, Gipsy Hill, Crystal Palace, Sydenham, Forest Hill, Honor Oak Park, Brockley, New Cross Gate and London Bridge

This 07.51am service from Victoria to London Bridge, (arriving at Sydenham at 8.18, Forest Hill 8.21, Honor Oak Park 8.23 and Brockley at 8.26) was lengthened from 6 to 8 carriages last December.

In am also working hard with the Sydenham Society to secure improvements to Sydenham station and am pressing the various stakeholders – Lewisham Council, Network Rail, Southern, Transport for London and the East London Line team – to get together to discuss how to take plans for new stations forward.

Len Duvall
London Assembly Member for Greenwich & Lewisham

Weeble
Posts: 358
Joined: 1 Nov 2004 17:56
Location: Sydenham

Post by Weeble »

Excellent news. At last the dilemma of the 08:32 is solved - will no longer have to trade off the benefits of a faster journey in vs. being crammed onto four coaches.

On the downside, will lose the guilty pleasure of laughing at people who stand waaaay down the platform and then have to run back when they realise it is a four car train. :lol:

Not surprisingly Brockley residents have been complaining, it is a wonder they ever get to work. At least in Sydenham being seatless in rush hour is the exception rather than the rule.

Lenduvall
Posts: 9
Joined: 8 Jun 2006 10:42
Location: Sydenham

East London Line

Post by Lenduvall »

Just to let you know that I have written to the Mayor of London urging him to use the opportunity of the East London Line to improve stations along the route. With such an investment going into the transport infrastructure it is important not to miss the opportunity to provide wider benefits. It is also important that these stations can cope with the extra passenger growth.

I am asking the Mayor to look at the stations as a whole (along the line) and consider all sources of funding to come up with a package of measure to improve the stations. I am also pressing for distinctive branding/signage at the stations.

Len Duvall AM
Assembly Member for Greenwich & Lewisham

Harrysdad
Posts: 2
Joined: 31 Jul 2006 21:29
Location: SE26

More rush hour trains from Sydenham to Clapham Junction.....

Post by Harrysdad »

Does anyone know if there are plans to have more trains before the 8.33am to Gipsy Hill that may go to Clapham Junction?

I have written to Southern trains and I was impressed, I got a letter back withink a week but it just said thank you for your comments..

Would be great if we could...

First time I have seen this site - good to see so many people interested in the local community...

Thanks..

:P

nasaroc
Posts: 602
Joined: 1 Oct 2004 12:41
Location: Sydenham

Post by nasaroc »

When the East London Line Extension arrives (not until June 2010, I'm afraid) there will be four trains per hour running throughout the day to Crystal Palace. From there, you will be able to pick up one of the 5-6 trains per hour running through Gipsy Hill and Clapham Junction to Victoria.

My understanding is that the trains which currently run twice per hour from London Bridge to Victoria will continue, so there should be 6 trains per hour at most times of the day in this direction.

Knighton
Posts: 146
Joined: 24 Apr 2006 18:50
Location: sydenham

Re: East London Line

Post by Knighton »

Lenduvall wrote:Just to let you know that I have written to the Mayor of London urging him to use the opportunity of the East London Line to improve stations along the route. With such an investment going into the transport infrastructure it is important not to miss the opportunity to provide wider benefits. It is also important that these stations can cope with the extra passenger growth.

I am asking the Mayor to look at the stations as a whole (along the line) and consider all sources of funding to come up with a package of measure to improve the stations. I am also pressing for distinctive branding/signage at the stations.

Len Duvall AM
Assembly Member for Greenwich & Lewisham
Why not write and ask him to finish the job properly and extend the Crystal Palace route to Victoria via Gypsy Hill, Clapham, Battersea?

Why not ask him to insist on Underground rules for fares? For example why not make the boundary between Zones 3 and 4 AT Crystal Palace rather than between it and other stations?

Why not ask him for evening services on the Victoria service?

raymondus
Posts: 92
Joined: 14 Feb 2006 16:49
Location: Middle Sydenham

Post by raymondus »

I agree. Branding/signage seems to be a waste of money. Make the trains run well and provide a convenient, pleasant, and safe service - the work on the branding can wait.

nasaroc
Posts: 602
Joined: 1 Oct 2004 12:41
Location: Sydenham

Post by nasaroc »

The reason you can't run any more trains into Victoria and why the East London line extension can't be extended to Victoria isn't due to recalcitrant politicians or evil train operators. Victoria station and the lines running into it are currently operating at way beyond their maximum capacity at most times of the day. So much so, that the train companies have had to come up with schemes like allowing commuters to use the Gatwick Express.

Of course you could expand Victoria station and the number of lines running into the the station. But there is little available space in Victoria and to expand the lines would involve rebuilding every station, widening every bridge and the compulsory purchase and demolition of houses alongside the track. Even if you found the billions of pounds to complete such a scheme, local opposition would defeat you before you started - and frankly, I wouldn't blame them if I lived close to the track. Just look what happened when a proposal was put foward to speed up trains between Charing Cross and London Bridge by widening the track and knocking down some houses at Borough Market. A huge opposition was mounted and the scheme was put on the back burner.

In the circumstances, I think that we are being offered pretty good current and future local access to Victoria. From Sydenham, 2 direct trains per hour outside the rush hour and when the ELLX arrives 4 extra trains per hour throughout the day making 6 per hour in total. And don't forget Penge East, ten minutes down the road which offers 3 direct trains per hour to Victoria throughout the day.

Lenduvall
Posts: 9
Joined: 8 Jun 2006 10:42
Location: Sydenham

Post by Lenduvall »

1) Firstly, just to clarify the Mayor of London does not control overground rail and therefore does not set the fares – that is still the responsibility of the Department for Transport (DfT). Transport for London sets zones for travelcard purposes but rail fares are set by the DfT. TfL want a single, integrated ticketing system but obviously this is difficult when they do not control the overground rail network in London.

However, the East London Line extension has been passed to the Mayor’s control and will be operated under a TfL franchise. This means they can set higher level of standards. For example, with the North London Line (which is being transferred to TfL) they will be able to ensure that the operator provides additional station staff, Oyster ticketing including the ability to use Pay-As-You-Go and extra train services when they start running the service next year.

As previously mentioned the reason the East London Line cannot be extended further to Victoria is a capacity issue.

2) I have now heard back from the Mayor of London about improving the stations along the East London Line.

I had urged him to invest in a feasibility study of the stations and to come up with a package of reasonable measures to improve the stations along this line. So, I am pleased that Transport for London are currently undertaking feasibility work to investigate further improvements at the stations along the East London Line route. Elements of this have been included within the specification for the operation of the line and the Mayor is hopeful that they will be able to come up with a more comprehensive plan that goes considerably beyond just ‘changing the signs’.

TfL are also in negotiations with the Department for Transport regarding taking full responsibility for stations served by the extended East London Line between New Cross Gate and Crystal Palace/West Croydon. However, in the meantime I will continue to keep the pressure on both Network Rail and existing train operators to fulfil their existing obligations. The Mayor of London has also already made clear that he expects to see proper level of staffing at these stations.

I am pleased that the Mayor agrees with me that the branding and signage is also important, so that this new service is recognised as being a new and different service. The Mayor has instructed TfL to formalise a branding strategy to be launched in the autumn. He has also already made it clear that each of these new lines will be fully represented on the ‘Tube map’ and will be identified using the roundel. Services, fares and control of appropriate infrastructure/rolling stock will all be under the direct control of TfL.

Finally, the main works contract and rolling stock contracts remain on schedule to be awarded, as planned, towards the end of summer.

Len Duvall AM
London Assembly Member for Greenwich & Lewisham

DaveT
Posts: 70
Joined: 9 Nov 2004 16:10
Location: Sydenham

Post by DaveT »

Len - just wanted to say thankyou for this information and your representations. Clarifications like these do help, and sharing the information makes me believe in the future of the ELL.

I hope your contributions to STF will continue for a long time.

cheers, DaveT

Footloose
Posts: 19
Joined: 20 Aug 2006 00:07
Location: Sydenham

Post by Footloose »

Hello. I registered because this thread interests me and I have a question for Lenduvall.

He says the reason the new ELL cannot be extended to Victoria is a matter of capacity. The BR service between Sydenham and Victoria runs only during the busiest times of day. It stops when there is minimal congestion. On this evidence it would appear capacity is not the reason.

The service from London Bridge to Victoria, via Clapham and Battersea is very infrequent and its function will be duplicated, it seems to me, by phase 2 of the ELL extension. Surely there is scope to create a more useful and probably more viable service?

nasaroc
Posts: 602
Joined: 1 Oct 2004 12:41
Location: Sydenham

Post by nasaroc »

Footloose - you pose a very interesting question.

But can I clarify what you mean by your statement that the London Bridge to Victoria train "runs only during the busiest times of day" and "stops when there is minimal congestion". The first train from London Bridge to Victoria arrives at Sydenham station at 9.10am. Trains then call every half hour until the last train at 23.40. In other words, there is a half-hourly service throughout the day from Sydenham to Victoria (and back)except during the early morning rush hour.

That's our share of an extremely busy line. Surely we can't easily push even more trains on to the congested Victoria line? We'll have 6 trains per hour heading in the direction of Victoria (2 straight through and 4 changing at Crystal Palace) - and the service will also plug the early morning rush hour gap with 4 trains per hour (admittedly you'll have to change at Crystal Palace).

What sort of "more useful" or "viable" service do you have in mind when the ELLX arrives? This really is a genuine question - because if there is a better way you can see of running things then I'd certainly be willing to press the railway authorities - and Len Duvall - to provide it. I just can't immediately see what it is. Let us know what you have in mind.

Footloose
Posts: 19
Joined: 20 Aug 2006 00:07
Location: Sydenham

Post by Footloose »

The last time I checked the trains stopped running early evening. On checking I find they have extended the service but the last train from Victoria is still early (23:05)

I do feel, however, we would be better served by the more direct route via Tulse Hill, Clapham, Battersea rather than the detour via Balham. It would probably render those stations more viable too.

Lenduvall
Posts: 9
Joined: 8 Jun 2006 10:42
Location: Sydenham

Post by Lenduvall »

Southern (the train operating company) tell me that if the London Bridge to Victoria train was diverted via Tulse Hill, this would reduce by 2 trains per hour the service at 8 of South London's busiest stations.

It is doubtful that the East London Line would be requested to run into Victoria as it would almost certainly be rejected, as Victoria operates at capacity.

The South London Route Utilisation Strategy has just been started (where Network Rail gathers all information required to put a proposal together for improvements to capacity). You can view it at: http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/666.aspx
a consultation document should be out later this year.

Len Duvall AM
Assembly Member for Greenwich & Lewisham

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