New “shop” on Sydenham Road

[Robin Orton]

I think they mean 'aggressive in spiritual warfare', i.e. warfare against the devil, as in 'Onward Christian soldiers.' I'm sure they haven't got you or me in their sights; we'd probably find them quite charming.

[leenewham]

"Aggressive in spiritual warfare?"

What does that mean?
My brand of church is better than yours?
Convert people to my brand of religion?
Convert those who don't believe in god?
Just who is 'the devil'?

And what are "dead churches'? What do they mean by that?

I still find the language worrying.

I hope it's not a place that they use as a base to send out people to convert others like J Witnesses.

Sorry for being skeptical Robin!

[Robin Orton]

My brand of church is better than yours
Convert people to my brand of religion
Convert those who don't believe in god

I expect they would subscribe to all the above, Lee. But, specifically, I think what they call 'spiritual warfare' is, as I said, warfare against the devil. In answer to your question, the devil is seen as the fallen angel or spirit who leads the rebelllion against God; his aim is to tempt humankind to evil in the hope that they too will irrevocably reject God and thus be condemned to separation from him for ever. The Mountain of Fire people will also believe that the devil and other evil spirits can sometimes literally 'take possession' of people.

It appears that they want to emphasize the doctrine that the end of the world, the final battle between God and the devil when everyone has finally to decide which side they're on, could come at any time. This is what they mean by being an 'end-time church.' 'Dead churches' will, I expect, be those who in their view don't take the spiritual battles sufficiently seriously and prefer not to think about the imminent last judgment. In their view, this will probably include Christians who take these ideas 'metaphorically'.

Whether or not they are planning active steps to convert the people of Sydenham to their views remains to be seen. But you can always tell them to get lost - they'll be used to it, and won't punch you or anything!

No need to apologize for being sceptical - I am too. But I don't see why people shouldn't be allowed to hold unpopular religious views and try to persuade others to adopt them.

[JRobinson]

If they do open it up as a church and hold services there (and if they haven't been granted change of use planning permission), I intend to hold a demonstration outside, with placards asking or pointing out the planning laws, and H&S regulations re: fire escapes, and max numbers of people, etc. etc.

If I'm not already doing something else that is.

[Eagle]

Do we know they have not obtained planning permission ?

[Hill Dweller]

You're being TiC of course Robin



As for MFM and its ......

Latest Testimonies
* Deliverance from Excessive Bleeding and Appreciation to God for year-long preservation of life
* God answered my 12 Cross Over Prayer Points - expanded :-
God answered my 12 Cross Over Prayer Points - Sis Elizabeth
I want to thank God for giving me breakthrough concerning my business. I am a photographer by profession. Since 2004, I have been believing God for breakthrough on my business. Last year January, our father-in-the-Lord said we should write 12 prayer requests - which I wrote. And I thank God today that everything I needed for my business, God has given me. He gave me a digital camera, he used someone to bless me with photo printer. He also gave me a shop. Everything I needed for the shop was given to me free of charge, including generator. I want to thank God for giving me all these. Praise the Living Jesus.
* God gave my son a job after 1 year post-NYSC joblessness
* God delivered my husband from fatal accident and healed my son from paralysis
* God turned my unmarried daughters into married women
* Academic Success in my family and Miraculous Vehicle provision
* Prophecy from the Circle of Seven came to pass in my life
* God preserved my house after gas was left on for 17 hours

BOOKS FOR THE MONTH: FEBRUARY
The recommended books for the month of February are:
1. The Terrible Agenda
2. Signposts of Unbrokenness
Copies of these books and others are available at the Battle Cry Christian Ministries, MFM International Bookshop and at all MFM branches worldwide.


I worked with a lovely woman who 'belonged' to this sort of church a couple of years ago; her alms were demanded against her payslip!

[Duke of Clarence]

MFM are quite a superstitous organisation that scare the bejesus out of believers with their obsession with evil spirits/possession and witchcraft. Deliverance through prayers can be a big money spinner. If a person is accused of withcraft or being possessed by an evil spirit they are offered redemption for a fee.

MFM have been operating services from Kingsdale School, Alleyn Park. They do have a large congreagtion but the location of the school, not on busy High Street, and the large on site carpark means that they do not impact too much on the locality.

Anyhow here's a little test to see if you need deliverance, if you answer yes to any of the following best sign up:

* if you were conceived in adultery or fornication
* if your parents comtemplated aborting you
* if you were abused as a child
* if you have been raped or molested
* if your mother had a difficult pregnancy
* if you almost died during the first few years of life
* if you had imaginary playmates in childhood
* if you have been chronically ill all your life
* if you grew up in a war zone
* if you have been ridiculed all your life
* if you have a history of sexual perversion in your bloodline (adultery, rape, incest, etc)
* if you have been accident-prone all your life
* if you have a history of poverty in your life and/or in your family
* if you have engaged in a lifestyle of cheating, robbing and theft
* if you are afraid of being alone
* if you are extremely uncomfortable around people
* if you are intensely jealous of others
* if you were involved with the occult
* if you are attracted to, or have consulted palm readers, satanic advisors and psychics
* if you have been involved with abortion
* if you have chronic headaches or mental confusion
* if you have a difficult time reading the Bible or praying
* if you are afraid of trusting people or getting close to people
* if instead of going forward, you are moving backward
* if you have inexplicable loss of memory
* if you should be a winner but you are failing
* if your inputs and efforts fail to get success
* if you are being governed by a power contrary to your will
* if you were formerly rich but suddenly turned poor

the list is endless, there's more on:
http://www.mountainoffire.org/deliverance/index.htm

[simon]

I've been looking at their site too Duke and I've got to say that Satan bloke has a hell of a lot to answer for

[paultreacy]

I was confronted by two Jesus Freaks (and I won't apologise for that term) as I headed out my door to fetch my two wee lads from school. Told them I was on my way to school and that I was a militant atheist. It caused them to pause for a moment.

I have no respect for religious beliefs but I do respect a person's right to believe what they like. I just wish people would keep such nonsense to themselves.

Non believers should speak out more. We should stand up and be counted. We need to challenge such dogma. Rationality needs to get the upper hand.

I know I'll get an earful for this and that's fine. I can deal with it.

GRRRR!

[michael]

Their UK website is http://www.mountainoffire.co.uk/home.htm
They have branches in Dulwich, Ladywell, Lewisham, Croydon, New Cross, Camberwell, etc

[syd]

It seems like that part of Sydenham road is dying a slow death. If the drycleaners goes then thats it.

[The Clown]

I was one of the locals who objected to their planning application, and this was upheld. I saw recently that they had appealed the decision.
Whilst I can understand how relgious practice can give people some necessary structure and support in their lives, this sort of church is simply repugnant to me and exploitative.
Not in my back yard thanks...

[syd]

I had 2 JW knock my door I said I'm ok thanks and one of them said hitler thought the same thing. Now I don't even acknowledge them.

[leenewham]

I thought Hitler was dead. When did they call on him and was it in Sydenham?

[Eagle]

Very sad that some people give religion a bad name.
I am not a believer but I know that being a believer gives many people joy and hope.
Please do not tar all church goers with the same brush.

[Hill Dweller]

The same brush of guilt - just for existing - Eagle?


Having read its links, seen the address at which it's supposedly based in Woolwich, googled for an image ....... do you really really suppose this 'ministry' is benevolent and straight up?

However, best I go have a look at progress at Syd Rd

[Eagle]

Sorry Hill Dweller
Did not mean to imply I agreed with these people , all I was trying to say was that some persons seem to be taring all religious people with the same brush.

[Robin Orton]

I thought Hitler was dead. When did they call on him and was it in Sydenham?

I believe that the Nazi regime persecuted Jehovah's Witnesses, Lee, and that many of them died in the camps. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecutio ... zi_Germany

I'm not sure why 'Syd' seems to hold this against them.

[leenewham]

Obviously I was joking Robin.

I have a problem with Jehovas Witnesses. I hate the fact that they try come door to door, some are quite pesistent. I hate it when they come up to me in a park and start going on about god. I don't believe in god, so I wish they will leave me alone. It's all branding. Christianity has the best logo though, even their buildings are branded and they have a brand bible, although they have many sub brands.

I don't try to convert my friends who are religious into not believing in god.

My Great Aunt was a Jehovas Witness. She was in an accident and needed a blood transfusion. She declined. She died.

I think that's stupid. My nan does too, she lost a sister.

And yes, Hitler was a very very bad man. He persecuted many people, groups and religions, although evidence suggests he was religious.

[leenewham]

I think they were using Godwins Law Robin, so they lost the argument.