Forest Hill Elisnore Road Incident Meeting

The place for serious discussion, announcements and breaking news about Sydenham

Moderator: frenzarin

admin
Site Admin
Posts: 2558
Joined: 20 Sep 2004 21:49

Forest Hill Elisnore Road Incident Meeting

Post by admin »

The Met Police have asked us to publish this message
-------------------------------------------------------------

Dear All

Following on from the meeting held at St George's Christ Church yesterday in relation to Sunday's (19.02.12) incident where a 25 year old man was shot by police in Elisnore Road another community meeting will be taking place this Saturday (25.02.12).

The purpose of the meeting is for local residents to discuss the incident with the police and to hear directly from them about their concerns.

Senior Officers from Lewisham will be present to take questions
The IPCC have also been invited.
Residents will have the opportunity to ask questions about how the case is being handled.
It will be held at Kilmorie Primary School, Kilmorie Road, London, Lewisham SE23 2SP and will start at 1pm
Please can you inform your readers and listeners
The details are on our Twitter site @MPS Lewisham and will be on our website shortly.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ] Image
bensonby
Posts: 1650
Joined: 18 Jun 2008 12:28
Location: Kent

Re: Forest Hill Elisnore Road Incident Meeting

Post by bensonby »

I believe there is also some kind of "community bus" at the location of the incident where police officers are on hand to chat to and with leaflets etc. if anyone is intersted and can't make the meeting. No idea of precise details or how long it's going to be there: but it will definately still be there tomorrow all day.
LisaCummins
Posts: 49
Joined: 30 Jul 2006 10:03
Location: Hall Drive

Re: Forest Hill Elisnore Road Incident Meeting

Post by LisaCummins »

May I say, it will be a complete waste of time attending this meeting.
The police are not really interested in what we have to say. The police will simply defend their actions and all will soon be forgotten.
As far as the IPCC are concerned, they are only independent to the public, not to the police....It's simply a smokescreen designed to make belief the police actually care what we think and a cunning way of making us believe they have nothing to hide. And if the police really were as honest as they like to make out, there would be no real need for an IPCC at all.

If you haven't realised already, the police are allowed to murder people. Though when they kill people, for some reason it's not called murder. They will get away with this, just like they have with ALL the rest of deaths in custody.

.......But if you have nothing better to do and fancy hearing some corrupt liars talking rubbish, then go ahead, attend this meeting.

AS LIKE THE METROPOLITAN POLICE, THE IPCC CANNOT BE TRUSTED EITHER
Annie
Posts: 1187
Joined: 13 May 2006 11:08
Location: Sydenham

Re: Forest Hill Elisnore Road Incident Meeting

Post by Annie »

I have no idea where people get their ideas from :roll:
leenewham
Posts: 5886
Joined: 2 Sep 2007 11:58
Location: SYDENHAM
Contact:

Re: Forest Hill Elisnore Road Incident Meeting

Post by leenewham »

Blimey Lisa! Police have made mistakes, but they are NOT allowed to murder people. This general sweeping statement is akin to racist comments.

Infact I find your comment rather abusive and offensive Lisa.

Whatever you think of the police, in totality they do a good job, this isn't like Brazil or Guatemala where they really do have problems with their police. Good grief.
Voyageur
Posts: 428
Joined: 2 Jan 2011 13:23

Re: Forest Hill Elisnore Road Incident Meeting

Post by Voyageur »

Lisa, I'm afraid that that is a load of offensive, abusive codsawllop.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ] Image
CaptainCarCrash
Posts: 2852
Joined: 23 Jun 2009 20:04
Location: Even further than before

Re: Forest Hill Elisnore Road Incident Meeting

Post by CaptainCarCrash »

Is it though?

The police seem to be too ready to shoot IMVHO, the prospect of our police armed scares the hell out of me, going by their recent record anyway.

Remember the guy with a chair leg years ago?

This smacks as a precursor to more civil unrest, which will undoubtedly lead to us all fending for ourselves just like last time. In fact the police were so ineffectual during last summers unrest I've lost total confidence in them. They totally lost control of the situation which lead to hoards of marauding low evolved waifs burning people out of their homes, their community skills leave me wondering wtf? tbf.

The bloke had a knife? they could have tazered him but they chose to unload, again.

{Sent from a volcano}
sydeman
Posts: 148
Joined: 23 Sep 2007 07:15
Location: Upper Sydenham

Re: Forest Hill Elisnore Road Incident Meeting

Post by sydeman »

Oh dear I have seen some ridiculous statements before on this forum, but the above really do go beyond the norm. If this is the sort of thing you really think, then good luck to you. This forum used to be really interesting and informative and an asset to the community; its just not worth it anymore.
The Clown
Posts: 387
Joined: 8 Apr 2005 14:04
Location: Sydenham

Re: Forest Hill Elisnore Road Incident Meeting

Post by The Clown »

Sweeping statements made on the back of isolated incidents are never a good thing.

All of the police that I know are wonderful. And all that I have come across in a general sense have been exremely respectful and polite. Of course there are going to be exceptions, but this has been my personal experience.

If you consider the nonsense that the police have to deal with every day, arresting the same offenders over and over only for them to be handed out minor penalties by the legal system and round they go again, you may have an insight into how difficult a job it can sometimes be. And don't forget the shiftwork and compulsory overtime. If there is a need, they have to go.

Yet, they are supposed to be super-human in the face of extremely stressful situations. They are sent out on the beat on their own, they are continuablly abused and ridiculed and all they are trying to do is their job.

I am not talking about this specific incident, which clearly needs to be properly investigated.
We do not have the full details yet.

I am grateful that if I, or one of my family members or friends (heaven forbid) are in accident, or a victim of crime, that I have a regulated police force to go to, whether or not they are able to deal with my query promptly.

Want to see a difference in policing - make the football stadiums pay for their own policing, sort out the outragous drunken louts on our high streets (one time I'm thankful to live in London when I look at the behaviour in some other UK cities and charge individuals who waste resources). Allow the police more leeway in dealing with the oiks....in a general sense (Im not saying shooting someone is ok, but personally I would rather that the police were more heavy handed with real offenders than we continue to see the increase in violent crime on innocent victims that we continue to see).

Discharging a fire arm is not done lightly, the training is rigorous but at the end of the day it remains a split-second decision that the officer has to live with. I am sure that the officer involved here will regret his actions, whether or not he was technically in the right or in the wrong. It's an awful, awful thing.

The level of anxiety for public disorder remains high and whilst it does you can expect a proportionate response from what are, after all, other human beings.
Let us not forget that a police officer on patrol was fired at indiscriminately the other day.

We need to diffuse the tension not by whipping up frenzied accusations of blame, but by understanding what went wrong and why it went so very wrong.

I feel terribly sorry for the families involved.
CaptainCarCrash
Posts: 2852
Joined: 23 Jun 2009 20:04
Location: Even further than before

Re: Forest Hill Elisnore Road Incident Meeting

Post by CaptainCarCrash »

Why is that sydeman?

Because I have an opinion that does not fall into what I deem as the luvvie world of the mono thought clique brigade.

I thought, although I'm prepared to be corrected if wrong, however I doubt you'd be able to do it, that the idea of a forum is to debate and give your true opinion instead of pandering to the wishy washy ideology of I must not speak my mind in case some lesser mortal flounces??? because from where I'm sitting no one ever questions anything around here, ever.

Lisa spoke her mind, there have been people killed in police custody as there have been fatal shootings and because it just so happens the police got it wrong then why not question the situation?

If you choose to leave then off you go, nobody cares, least of all me.

By then.
Last edited by CaptainCarCrash on 25 Feb 2012 14:41, edited 1 time in total.
Annie
Posts: 1187
Joined: 13 May 2006 11:08
Location: Sydenham

Re: Forest Hill Elisnore Road Incident Meeting

Post by Annie »

The point is Mike, the Police are being condemned even before any inquiry has taken place.
Just for the sake of fairness,how should we be policed?
Annie
Posts: 1187
Joined: 13 May 2006 11:08
Location: Sydenham

Re: Forest Hill Elisnore Road Incident Meeting

Post by Annie »

[quote="The Clown"]Sweeping statements made on the back of isolated incidents are never a good thing.
Want to see a difference in policing - make the football stadiums pay for their own policing, sort out the outragous drunken louts on our high streets [quote]

I agree that the football stadiums should pay for the Policing of the matches.
The obscene amounts of money they pay footballers should be spent on such like.
CaptainCarCrash
Posts: 2852
Joined: 23 Jun 2009 20:04
Location: Even further than before

Re: Forest Hill Elisnore Road Incident Meeting

Post by CaptainCarCrash »

Annie wrote:The point is Mike, the Police are being condemned even before any inquiry has taken place.
Just for the sake of fairness,how should we be policed?
Without the use of deadly force would be a good start, they need to improve the way they are perceived within certain parts of the community, because there are many people who feel like lisa and it is a very real problem for the police.

I understand the police have a difficult job but where do you draw the line? and people must realise as the police arm so do the criminals who are prepared to evade capture, at all costs. Not saying I condone crooks with guns but for me I think the police should preserve life at all costs, not use firearms when they have taser available, and that is my point.

If the bloke had a gun then that does change the dynamic, it just so happens that in this instance he didn't.
Voyageur
Posts: 428
Joined: 2 Jan 2011 13:23

Re: Forest Hill Elisnore Road Incident Meeting

Post by Voyageur »

Excellent post The Clown, fully agree with your sentiments. I am sick to death of police bashing in this country. And sick to death of the way that the police have been forced to become toothless, serial apologists by the PC brigade. Police firearms officers have a thankless task and are immediately jumped on from a great height and lambasted if they ever do have to fire a shot. They do NOT do so lightly and I am astonished that any of them volunteer for the role at all.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ] Image
CaptainCarCrash
Posts: 2852
Joined: 23 Jun 2009 20:04
Location: Even further than before

Re: Forest Hill Elisnore Road Incident Meeting

Post by CaptainCarCrash »

Voyageur wrote: if they ever do have to fire a shot. They do NOT do so lightly and I am astonished that any of them volunteer for the role at all.
Because it's a form of power they first discover during the heady days of being the bully boy of the playground at school, to the crazy power they then embrace in the military that leads them to the doors of the Met and which serves it's Autumn as a screw in the prison service.

I could be totally off the mark with this one but something tells me they have a thing for uniform.

But I must add out of fairness I wouldn't want to tarre all police with the same brush.
Last edited by CaptainCarCrash on 25 Feb 2012 15:10, edited 1 time in total.
Annie
Posts: 1187
Joined: 13 May 2006 11:08
Location: Sydenham

Re: Forest Hill Elisnore Road Incident Meeting

Post by Annie »

not use firearms when they have taser available, and that is my point.

If the bloke had a gun then that does change the dynamic, it just so happens that in this instance he didn't.[/quote]

No, Mike he had a large bladed knife,
This was in the news report also that he was Tazered,
A spokesman said: “Local officers attended and attempted to approach the man, who then threatened them with a large bladed weapon.

“The officers retreated and called for further units to assist including firearms officers.

“The man then approached officers on Stanstead Road, threatening them with the weapon.”

The firearms officers deployed both Tasers and firearms and the man received gunshot wounds.

In my opinion,the criminal was in the wrong,first he was trying to break into someones car,then he pulled a large bladed weapon, having done both, he left himself open to what happened next,End of.
CaptainCarCrash
Posts: 2852
Joined: 23 Jun 2009 20:04
Location: Even further than before

Re: Forest Hill Elisnore Road Incident Meeting

Post by CaptainCarCrash »

No it isn't end of otherwise the police wouldn't be quaking in their boots. May be said crook was cold and wanted to have a sleep?

I'll agree, however we do not know the full situation but for me personally I'm opposed to the police using firearms, give it five years and we'll be seeing Mexican stand off's in the local Sainsburys car park.

Edit:Taser + Dogs OK

Taser + Guns = bad.
Annie
Posts: 1187
Joined: 13 May 2006 11:08
Location: Sydenham

Re: Forest Hill Elisnore Road Incident Meeting

Post by Annie »

mikecg wrote:No it isn't end of otherwise the police wouldn't be quaking in their boots. May be said crook was cold and wanted to have a sleep?
Edit:Taser + Dogs OK
Taser + Guns = bad.
Sorry I was talking about my personal feelings when I said End of.

If he was cold and wanted to sleep/keep warm why did he need a "bladed Weapon"?
sorry Mike but as far as I am aware its not an everday object to have with you.

The police will be scrutinised enough without the public automatically thinking they have done the wrong thing.
They have my vote.
CaptainCarCrash
Posts: 2852
Joined: 23 Jun 2009 20:04
Location: Even further than before

Re: Forest Hill Elisnore Road Incident Meeting

Post by CaptainCarCrash »

Annie wrote:The police will be scrutinised enough without the public automatically thinking they have done the wrong thing.
They have my vote.
That's fine Annie, however they do not have mine in this instance.
JulietP
Posts: 294
Joined: 18 Apr 2011 21:14
Location: SE26

Re: Forest Hill Elisnore Road Incident Meeting

Post by JulietP »

mikecg wrote:
Voyageur wrote: if they ever do have to fire a shot. They do NOT do so lightly and I am astonished that any of them volunteer for the role at all.
Because it's a form of power they first discover during the heady days of being the bully boy of the playground at school, to the crazy power they then embrace in the military that leads them to the doors of the Met and which serves it's Autumn as a screw in the prison service.

I could be totally off the mark with this one but something tells me they have a thing for uniform.

But I must add out of fairness I wouldn't want to tarre all police with the same brush.
But your statements on this thread are tarring all police with the same brush!.

Yes, there have been some corrupt and/or incompetent police officers. And thankfully nowadays they are more often identified and dealt with rather than being ignored. But there are bad apples in every single profession - the police are not unique in this.

The police are under enormous scrutiny and pressure, and they get it in the neck constantly. My other half is a police officer and is constantly terrified to make even the most minor mistake because the result is often being hung out to dry by the Met, vilified in the press and made into a public hate figure. I feel enormously sorry for the poor bugger who pushed Ian Tomlinson down, for example. In a high-pressure, adrenaline-filled situation, constantly in danger, police officers do occasionally get the balance between protecting the public, protecting themselves and making sure force used is proportionate slightly wrong. The police can never get that balance right all of the time. They're human. And in any case, there will always be some people saying the police were over-aggressive and others saying they were too passive. So even when the police get it right, there will be some who believe they were wrong.

And Mike, I find your ignorant generalisations of police officers and their motivations for joining the service both generally and personally offensive. My other half is a liberal pacifist who hates violence, loves books and does the times crossword on the way into work. He hates wearing a uniform and is motivated by the intellectual challenge of solving crime, a heartfelt hatred of bullies and unfairness as well as a genuine desire to provide a public service. And I know many of his colleagues feel the same way.

This thread actually makes me feel quite sick. No police officer uses his firearm lightly. The amount of scrutiny (let alone the paperwork) provides a strong disincentive on them to use force in this way. Leave them alone.
Post Reply