Aerial Photograph of the Croydon Canal!

The History of Sydenham from Cippenham to present day. Links to photos especially welcome!

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Steve Grindlay
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Post by Steve Grindlay »

I believe that the canal widened nearer to Forest Hill, in the area enclosed by Pearcefield Avenue, Davids Road and Manor Mount. Part of it is still an open space, in front of the ambulance station. This map, of about 1862, shows the location of the small lake:
Image
The canal, coloured blue in my original, is sort of "L"-shaped, crossing Warner Road (now Manor Mount), and ending at Canal Road (now the begining of Devonshire Road) and Havelock Terrace (now London Road).

By 1867 it seems that this stretch of the canal had also disappeared. The Kentish Mercury reported (23 March 1867) that it was to be drained. Many fish were found, including a monster pike, over 3 feet long.
Last edited by Steve Grindlay on 22 Jan 2008 15:31, edited 1 time in total.
tulse hill terry
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Post by tulse hill terry »

Fascinating.

It survived, for as long as it did, because like an "ox-bow" lake it was by-passed by the subsequent railway, presumably?

[Oh dear, not a very elegant sentence.]
Falkor
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Post by Falkor »

Davids Road area (widened as seen on 1862 Stanford map above)
Image

Honour Oak Park (top of lock staircase is narrow)
Image

Honour Oak Park and beyond (Forest Wood is the winding part at the bottom)
Image
Falkor
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Post by Falkor »

Falkor
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Post by Falkor »

The reservoir doesn't quite look right. It's western edge needs to run alongside Dartmouth Road until it gets to Willow Way, where the boundary changed direction and followed the eastern edge of this road. Where Willow Way changes direction, the edge of the reservoir carried on to join up with the line of Sydenham Park at around the point where this changes direction.
Falkor
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Post by Falkor »

Like this...
Image
will greenwood
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Post by will greenwood »

[img]<a%20href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/22829730@N ... d"%20/></a>[/img]

heres a later map showing the remnants of the wider area at the top lock at honor oak...I reckon it makes sense, although I'd like to know for sure.[/img]
Falkor
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Post by Falkor »

I wouldn't trust that map above the line of Honour Oak Park for several reasons:
1) The pond-like remnant of the Croydon Canal is not continuous at that point.
2) It does not line up with the canal remnants below Honour Oak Park.
3) Honor Oak Park was a newly laid road, and the canal remains were being used for recreation.
It looks like that little pond may have been created after the canal was drained. Also, if you insist on the canal being wider at the top of the lock staircase based solely on that later map then the width of your superimposition has been exagerated at this point, and needs to be condensed down. Personally, I would stick to the evidence from the 2 maps I've provided from the time of the canal + illustrations of the canal at the Honor Oak Park junction; it did not widen here.

I don't know how accurate that 1862 Stanford map really is...
Image
I've always thought Davids Road followed the towpath of the canal, but it seems it might have been in the bed of the canal (not just the shops). Anyone got a scan of the 1863 Os map showing the Davids Road stretch of the canal? Another possibility is that remnants of the canal evolved to become wider after it was closed. I'm going to compare with the 1843 map...
Falkor
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Post by Falkor »

4 years after the canal was drained there was nothing above the line of Honour Oak Park, which hadn't yet completely been laid:
Image
It seems that pond was formed between 1843 and 1862.
will greenwood
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Post by will greenwood »

yep!
I reckon you're right!
I've added the amendments you suggested...
I'll try to add the locks and bridges later...
I found this regarding the dimensions..can you confirm these?

'The canal was built to be 34 feet (10 m) wide. It had a maximum depth of 5 feet (1.5 m). By 1811 there were 22 barges on the canal. The barges were 60 feet (18 m) long and 9 feet (2.7 m) wide and could carry about 30 tons. The canal's main cargo was timber.'
Falkor
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Post by Falkor »

The 1843 map shows the Davids Road stretch to be much thinner than the 1862 Stanford map, and so Davids Road was NOT inside the canal bed, but alongside the towpath as originally hypothesised.
Image
Will seems to have done a pretty accurate representation of this stretch. I think the pond just needs to be a little bit wider in the southerly direction, that's all.
Falkor
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Post by Falkor »

I found this regarding the dimensions..can you confirm these?

'The canal was built to be 34 feet (10 m) wide. It had a maximum depth of 5 feet (1.5 m). By 1811 there were 22 barges on the canal. The barges were 60 feet (18 m) long and 9 feet (2.7 m) wide and could carry about 30 tons. The canal's main cargo was timber.'
Yeah, but it was narrower at the base, I seem to remember reading somewhere. There's some good info in this book, which I've zipped up some extracts from:
Image
Download...
Might come in useful.
will greenwood
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Post by will greenwood »

brilliant!
thanks for that.
Yes, canals hare a standard 'keel' cross section, with a narrow channel running allong the middle..the 'swim'...keeps the boat moving straight, even round bends.
i'm just posting the amended ocks on google earth
thanks again
W
Falkor
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Post by Falkor »

I see it's coming along rather nicely now, and will be a useful tool to historians of the present and future! When you get round to adding the Anerley part, I've got some useful maps that might come in handy.

I'm going to analyse some other stretches now to see if I can spot any inconsistencies. It's going to be a difficult task to verify the exact route between New Cross and Honour Oak Park. The 1833 map I uploaded is not as accurate as the c1812/1843/1863 maps. There's about 5 estate maps of Brockley that would come in so so handy for this section, but they cost about £20 each for uncompressed TIFs. I cannot afford them right now, but plan to purchase them sometime in the future.

North of New Cross the best maps are 1837 Cary and 1850 (Greenwood?), plus there might be some others.
will greenwood
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Post by will greenwood »

I'll make a start on the rest of the route to croydon later..
i have quite a lot of old maps of the deptford end, from a different project, so i can be pretty clear up to newcross gate station, where the cutting starts..
I shall enjoy reading that booklet later.
many thanks
W
Falkor
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Post by Falkor »

Check this out... It's apparently a photo showing the lockkeeper's cottage at Brockley bridge:
Image
will greenwood
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Post by will greenwood »

This is interesting!
I cant see any sign of a lock keepers cottage at the brockley rd bridgeon the maps...but this certainly looks right....on the site of the crematorium, I reckon.
will greenwood
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Post by will greenwood »

Falkor, would it be possible to get pages 120 - 121 of that very useful book?
I've mapped the locks from 28 down to 11 at endwell rd...there are a few places where the measurements may be out...but that can be adjusted.
There are quite a few interesting signs still apparent in the landscape as you scan the aerial images, (particularly in the gardens around Boveney Rd.)
Falkor
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Post by Falkor »

I noticed a pattern of an old pathway coming from one of the Brockley bridges that is currently aligned with... I thought it too abstract to even bother mentioning. Hey, maps.live.com has much clearer aerial photos than Google, so you should check the gardens of Boveney Road on that site.

Sorry for not including those pages; I knew I messed up with one image, but couldn't figure out how...
Download...
will greenwood
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Post by will greenwood »

thanks.
maps.live is similar to virtual earth....(but it does run on firefox...and not exclusively on IE...so thats a plus.)
the elevation rendering is much better in VE...perhaps it can be mapped into that at some point...then the roll of the hills and embankements can be added..
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