Aerial Photograph of the Croydon Canal!

The History of Sydenham from Cippenham to present day. Links to photos especially welcome!

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Falkor
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Post by Falkor » 28 Jan 2008 20:39

Will, you would not believe how accurate I got the tithe map overlayed onto the aerial photo; Honor Oak Road, London Road and Stanstead road all matched up perfectly--even some side roads, too. Now we can really see how accurate the Forest Hill to Honor Oak part really is...
Image
*The red spot is where the lockkeeper's cottage stood.
1) Everything needs to be rotated slightly to the left.
2) Twisting out of Forest Wood towards Honor Oak needs to be made more narrower in width.
3) The canal crossed Honor Oak Park slightly more to the left.
If you can rotate the whole section then it should take care of everything.

Falkor
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Post by Falkor » 28 Jan 2008 21:05

The official maps line up perfectly as well! Maybe this won't be so difficult afterall...
Image
The orange part is confirmed by superimposing the official croydon canal map onto the aerial photo. The red part is guess work at the moment.
Again, the canal remains thin throughout Forest Hill; there is no evidence for widening anywhere between Davids Road pool and Honor Oak Park area.

Falkor
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Post by Falkor » 28 Jan 2008 21:28

The purple part is based on the next page of the official map series, superimposed onto the tithe map and aerial photo. Again, the remnants seen in 1843 match up perfectly. There is a very slight widening around the area previously outlined in red, but I've now accurately completed and confirmed the transition in purple:
Image
It seems the swingbridge may have been slightly more south, but this is not definite.

will greenwood
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Post by will greenwood » 28 Jan 2008 22:50

excellent stuff mate.
its not too far out at all..
I suspected it was more curvy ...but the book says it was over 50 feet wide at the bend here...so this may be the central, deepest part of the original channel..
excellent stuff.
the main reason for the width anomalies on google earth is mainly technical...there are script errors...say no more
but I will get the whole thing right, eventually...

I had a go at lining up the locks from the plan maps;
[img]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2283/222 ... ea78_b.jpg[/img]

still a fair bit of guess work

Falkor
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Post by Falkor » 28 Jan 2008 23:03

Good work, mate! :shock: You have to be one of the bravest men I've ever communicated with to be able to face those Honor Oak locks... The task seemed so daunting it seriously put me off, but you seem to be doing well. You've got the Brockley bridges lined up nicely, so that's a good sign. I'm glad all these bits and bobs are coming in handy...

will greenwood
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Post by will greenwood » 28 Jan 2008 23:20

I'm glad all these bits and bobs are coming in handy...
they certainly are mate!
This is something I've always wanted to do since i first heard about the canal in the '60's...so, at long last then, eh?

Falkor
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Post by Falkor » 28 Jan 2008 23:58

Here's the analysis of the Anerley section based on the 1852 map:
Image
Also, the Penge bridge part is too wide, and will need correcting based on a different estate map.

Falkor
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Post by Falkor » 29 Jan 2008 00:41

I'm getting a slightly different alignment with the 1837 map, though I'm sure the 1854 map is more accurate. I'm going to try a few other maps, including the "official map".
Image

will greenwood
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Post by will greenwood » 29 Jan 2008 00:48

i've updated based on your 1854 allignment...then i followed the trees...
all good stuff...
it seems the canal Did go through the Dartmouth arms yard, next to which was an inlet next to the bridge...a mooring?
also, it did pass through the obvious line behind the houses in woodcombe crescent...
we should trust the signs!

Falkor
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Post by Falkor » 29 Jan 2008 01:58

Image
*Most accurate routes:
1) Orange solid (1862 Stanford)
2) Yellow outline ("official" canal map)
3) Green (1837 enclosure map)
4) Pink (1854 map)
Only 1860s OS map left to try... (I don't have it).

Image
*Canal was definitely aligned more to the right on leaving Penge for Sydenham.
*The green route is looking more accurate here.
*The canal widened only a tiny bit near the wharf as shown in orange.
*Different buildings from different times in red and pink.
*Alterations of the penge stream shown in different shades of blue.

will greenwood
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Post by will greenwood » 29 Jan 2008 08:48

map updated!
...mainly following the green line....
I reckon the pools at the bends may well have changed shape over the years...and the channel would become narrower as the years pass after closure.
I reckon the Wharf would be well covered up by the railway spoil, but it'd be good to try and place it.
.......also, the painting that shows st Pauls in t he distance woul;d be the view from vesta rd bridge, just in front of where the cottage in the 1946 photo was taken....

will greenwood
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Post by will greenwood » 29 Jan 2008 08:59

...oh, I just heard that theres a link to the map on the Croydon Canal page of the Canal Museum website.

http://www.canalmuseum.org.uk/history/croydon.htm

Falkor
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Post by Falkor » 29 Jan 2008 11:30

Nice! I don't think it can be found by Google searching, so it's all about links...

I just checked one more map (1844 Tithe) and it seems the green route is being confirmed as the most accurate.

will greenwood
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Post by will greenwood » 29 Jan 2008 11:43

Just a thought.
taking my own advice, and following the signs....
Could this be the towpath through honour Oak?
check out this set;

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22829730@N ... 3813699450

if this is the case, the position of at least 2 locks seem to jump right out..

The 'towpath' line needs on the ground inspection, but it certainly is enhanced growth...

any opinions?

Falkor
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Post by Falkor » 29 Jan 2008 12:17

Dunno mate, but I fancy taking a train to Crofton Park today, to have a look around... It's fascinating to think the canal ran west of the railway, and only joined up just after Brockley Way. Don't forget the canal left Honor Oak slightly to the left of the blue line as revealed by my earlier analysis. Also, you still need to correct the loop-the-loop part. Forget what the book says about dimensions. The official map is the best source, now that we've got the correct Devonshire Road alignment. As you know, I can't help above Honor Oak Park. BTW, I noticed that the reason we can't see the canal running in the distance of that Honor Oak painting is because the course took a sudden left turn after one of the locks as shown by your superimposition. On a last note: I think north of Sydenham Bridge needs a minor correction. On leaving the bridge, the canal curved very slightly to the right, to the come away from the railway before almost immediately coming back in again. See if this is confirmed by the "official" map... I only found out by looking at another estate map, which goes from Sydenham Bridge to Forest Hill. Damn, if I had a scan of this one, we could use it to find the accurate route between these areas. This estate map is a real beauty... It shows right the way down to the Old House and west to the church meadow. It might even go all the way to Perry Vale farm, where the Tile Kiln might have been. It would show exactly where the Forest Hill swingbridge crossed.

will greenwood
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Post by will greenwood » 29 Jan 2008 12:46

I've already twisted the canal round at honor oak..
that image was painted from just under lock 26, so the canal would have curved round, after the lock...youre right.

that map sounds perfect....just the job.if you do go today, try and get a few photos from the painting's vantage points....
that may help line it all up...
the spot under the top lock in the painting should be easy enough to find..
anyway...i'll amaend the map now.

Falkor
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Post by Falkor » 29 Jan 2008 12:54

I'm leaving now to catch the 1:26 train... I take a few photos... anything you want me to check out? I've got printouts of your aerials with me.

will greenwood
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Post by will greenwood » 29 Jan 2008 13:00

...Now I can see how Doo'd Wharf is so visible through the bridge in the drawings...

Falkor
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Post by Falkor » 29 Jan 2008 17:08

I'm back! Later, I'm going to start a new thread on the Honor Oak to Brockley section of the canal.

will greenwood
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Post by will greenwood » 29 Jan 2008 19:08

by the way,
If we do find a lock or a boathouse....shall we have a go at the crystal palace pneumatic Railway next?? :roll:

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