Sydenham Hill estate flats threatened to be demolished?
Sydenham Hill estate flats threatened to be demolished?
I spoke to an old friend still living in Sydenham Hill estate, who told me her block of flats may be knocked down, and that she may end up living with her daughter. Does anyone have anymore details about this??
Re: Sydenham Hill estate flats threatened to be demolished?
Personally I would knock the whole of Sydenham Hill Estate down and also Wells Park would be closed (too much dog poo there) and then redevelope the land into a lovely 18 hole golf course. We badly need a golf course as it is practically impossible to become a member at Dulwich and Sydenham Hill Golf Club.Falkor wrote:I spoke to an old friend still living in Sydenham Hill estate, who told me her block of flats may be knocked down, and that she may end up living with her daughter. Does anyone have anymore details about this??
Now where's my tin hat
there has been talk of this and a consultaTion on the possibility of regeneration of the estate or maybe demolishing some or all of it,new properties would be built,you may know as you have a friend who lives there that there are lots of problems with damp and subsidence on the estate,some flats are in a poor state of repair,private finance initiatives would finance the regeneration/rebuilding of the estate.
Those Sydenham Hill Estate Flats were only built in the mid 1950s, but I must admit the whole of Sydenham is quickly becoming very rundown looking. That estate was only built 50 years ago, and now they're already thinking about knocking it down!? I did notice it's built, for the most part, on a very steep site, so that might explain why subsidence may be occuring so soon. If this estate is going to get demolished then the historians will have a field day.. You know that part of Sydenham Hill estate was built on a cemetary in the grounds/garden of St. Mary's Oratory at 32 Sydenham Hill? The bodies had to be dug up and moved elsewhere...
St. Mary's Oratory
Sydenham Hill Estate in 1961 (not many years after it was built)
I visited Wells Park yesterday for the first time in atleast 10 years, and I was absolutely horrified by what I saw! The front of the main duck pond is overgrown, so you cannot even see the water anymore on this side, let alone the ducks; this is the main area we used to sit down on the benches and throw food to the birds, as well as admire the scenery. So sad to see the park in this state now... There used to be a little zoo/farm bit with rabits and other animals in cages up a steep path from the swamp I once fell inside, but now it just looks like a wooded waste ground with a fallen over tree. I saw 2 teenagers playing football on the former mini-golf course that also appears to be gone. More of the paddling pools have been filled in. There used to be a small building serving ice cream and refreshments (gone also). Worst of all was the sandpit, which is overgrown with grass; I used to love playing here when I was a toddler!
Wells Park in the late 70s/early 80s
Wells Park today
Overgrown Sandpit
I was thinking of moving back to Sydenham, but I'm not so sure now...
St. Mary's Oratory
Sydenham Hill Estate in 1961 (not many years after it was built)
I visited Wells Park yesterday for the first time in atleast 10 years, and I was absolutely horrified by what I saw! The front of the main duck pond is overgrown, so you cannot even see the water anymore on this side, let alone the ducks; this is the main area we used to sit down on the benches and throw food to the birds, as well as admire the scenery. So sad to see the park in this state now... There used to be a little zoo/farm bit with rabits and other animals in cages up a steep path from the swamp I once fell inside, but now it just looks like a wooded waste ground with a fallen over tree. I saw 2 teenagers playing football on the former mini-golf course that also appears to be gone. More of the paddling pools have been filled in. There used to be a small building serving ice cream and refreshments (gone also). Worst of all was the sandpit, which is overgrown with grass; I used to love playing here when I was a toddler!
Wells Park in the late 70s/early 80s
Wells Park today
Overgrown Sandpit
I was thinking of moving back to Sydenham, but I'm not so sure now...
Hi Falkor, I love your pictures by the way, thanks for putting them on. I can't agree with you about Wells Park though. I don't know what it was like in the 70's cos I've only lived here a few months but the park is the main reason why I moved here! I think it is a really well kept and beautiful.
Some of the children's playground things have probably only changed because of all the new laws making sure that children are firmly wrapped up in cotton wool etc. They are probably not allowed to have sand pits anymore in case dogs poo in them. Instead of the pools there are some fab looking fountains that are operated by jumping on coloured bits on the ground (I think). I watched some kids having a whale of a time there in the heatwave. I wished I was a kid again so that I could have a go.
As for the flats, since I don't live in them I can't comment for the inside but as for the outside I kind of think they are nicer looking than a lot of buildings in the area. I like the sunny look of the yellow bricks. And they are surrounded by lovely trees. I don't know what they are planning instead but if you had rows of little houses all the trees would probably have to go for a start. If they are going I hope they manage to build something nice (and modern) in their place.
Some of the children's playground things have probably only changed because of all the new laws making sure that children are firmly wrapped up in cotton wool etc. They are probably not allowed to have sand pits anymore in case dogs poo in them. Instead of the pools there are some fab looking fountains that are operated by jumping on coloured bits on the ground (I think). I watched some kids having a whale of a time there in the heatwave. I wished I was a kid again so that I could have a go.
As for the flats, since I don't live in them I can't comment for the inside but as for the outside I kind of think they are nicer looking than a lot of buildings in the area. I like the sunny look of the yellow bricks. And they are surrounded by lovely trees. I don't know what they are planning instead but if you had rows of little houses all the trees would probably have to go for a start. If they are going I hope they manage to build something nice (and modern) in their place.
I used to live right opposite Home Park (30 second walk away; nearest house to the main entrance), and managed to catch the adventure playground during it's last days of life, but it's always been a boring sort of park--at least as long as I've known it. They used to have a children's social club with table tennis and snooker, but I doubt that's in use since the adventure playground was taken down. It now just looks like one lonely field with a tiny play area. Worst time to visit is on a Wednesday when the library is closed; that whole side just looks really dull and lifeless, except maybe a couple of drunkards over by the disused toilets, and perhaps a sweeper around the dead-lit library.
Glad you enjoyed the photos... Anyone from Wells Park Road or any of the offshoots? I think a lot of people would be shocked if they knew the full extent of how the council--between the 50s and 70s--wiped this area CLEAN off the map! At least 6 roads off Wells Park road no longer exist!! 3 Churches have gone... Did you know there used to be an electrical generating station just to the east of Sydenham Hill estate, up the top of Springfield rise? One of my upper sydenham houses replaced an old timber cottage right next to the station; I might have caught radiation poisoning or something!? I was living in the grounds of a former generating station and I didn't even know it! I really hope I don't end up with cancer... Anyone from around Wells Park Road, Bradford Close estate, Dallas Road, Mill Gardens or Springfield Rise, Rosamond Street, Plane Street? I have the whole area photographed before it was landscaped over. You would hardly recognise it, and I've found no real way of comparing the scene of today with the scene of 50 years ago. The only landmarks are the Duke and Talma pubs and a map of the existing roads. Try looking for a retaining wall from 50 years back, and you will not find it; I guarantee one does not exist, just like there's no way of comparing Sydenham Hill Estate with St. Mary's Oratory.
I feel sorry for the people living in this estate; if I were living in those crowded flats, I would be scared... The evil council have wiped the area clean before, and they can do it again! However, there isn't much worth saving this time round as the buildings weren't maintained properly, but just the thought of so many people needing to be re-housed in other parts of the borough would be grief... No doubt a few members of this board must live in this big estate?
Wells Park Road - Extinct shops left of Mill Gardens, Right of Dallas Road
Wells Park Road - Right of Springfield Rise and Duke, Left of Dallas Road
Glad you enjoyed the photos... Anyone from Wells Park Road or any of the offshoots? I think a lot of people would be shocked if they knew the full extent of how the council--between the 50s and 70s--wiped this area CLEAN off the map! At least 6 roads off Wells Park road no longer exist!! 3 Churches have gone... Did you know there used to be an electrical generating station just to the east of Sydenham Hill estate, up the top of Springfield rise? One of my upper sydenham houses replaced an old timber cottage right next to the station; I might have caught radiation poisoning or something!? I was living in the grounds of a former generating station and I didn't even know it! I really hope I don't end up with cancer... Anyone from around Wells Park Road, Bradford Close estate, Dallas Road, Mill Gardens or Springfield Rise, Rosamond Street, Plane Street? I have the whole area photographed before it was landscaped over. You would hardly recognise it, and I've found no real way of comparing the scene of today with the scene of 50 years ago. The only landmarks are the Duke and Talma pubs and a map of the existing roads. Try looking for a retaining wall from 50 years back, and you will not find it; I guarantee one does not exist, just like there's no way of comparing Sydenham Hill Estate with St. Mary's Oratory.
I feel sorry for the people living in this estate; if I were living in those crowded flats, I would be scared... The evil council have wiped the area clean before, and they can do it again! However, there isn't much worth saving this time round as the buildings weren't maintained properly, but just the thought of so many people needing to be re-housed in other parts of the borough would be grief... No doubt a few members of this board must live in this big estate?
Wells Park Road - Extinct shops left of Mill Gardens, Right of Dallas Road
Wells Park Road - Right of Springfield Rise and Duke, Left of Dallas Road
Many thanks for these wonderful photographs. Falkor is correct in saying that this area was systematically cleared of many beautiful houses by the council during the sixties to build estates. The houses were compulsorily purchased by the council, their unfortunate residents turfed out whether they wanted to sell or not, and estates put in their place. The Thorpe Estate (now a conservation area!) was in line for the same treatment and was only saved by its comparatively small gardens which the council thought wouldn't maximise their building space.
However, it's easy to look back and see what a catastrophic mistake this was. At the time, it was happening all over the country and the vast majority of the public believed that it was a good thing - sweep away all of these ugly Edwardian and Victorian houses and welcome the high-rise future. The only people opposing these schemes locally were the nascent Sydenham Society led by Rolf Harris (yes, the same man, who lived in Border Road at the time). It's difficult to believe it now but their conservation views were regarded as totally extreme in the sixties and early seventies. Luckily, they were able to turn the tide of opinion against this policy - otherwise this entire area would now be covered in high-rises.
I would say that the Sydenham Society's fight against the retail the development of the Bell Green site (conserve our high street; build houses not monster stores) is also regarded by some as old-fashioned nonsense and standing in the way of "progress". I believe time will prove the Society's views to be correct - as they were on the post-war destruction of communities to build vertical slums.
However, it's easy to look back and see what a catastrophic mistake this was. At the time, it was happening all over the country and the vast majority of the public believed that it was a good thing - sweep away all of these ugly Edwardian and Victorian houses and welcome the high-rise future. The only people opposing these schemes locally were the nascent Sydenham Society led by Rolf Harris (yes, the same man, who lived in Border Road at the time). It's difficult to believe it now but their conservation views were regarded as totally extreme in the sixties and early seventies. Luckily, they were able to turn the tide of opinion against this policy - otherwise this entire area would now be covered in high-rises.
I would say that the Sydenham Society's fight against the retail the development of the Bell Green site (conserve our high street; build houses not monster stores) is also regarded by some as old-fashioned nonsense and standing in the way of "progress". I believe time will prove the Society's views to be correct - as they were on the post-war destruction of communities to build vertical slums.
I have just been reading a couple of books on the history of Sydenham, one of which is of old photos of the area. The section on Wells Park road and its offshoots is indeed a horror story, so many lovely old houses were swept away by the council, as you said, and communities were pretty much destroyed. I suppose it is easy to say in retrospect since at the time there were a lot of people who needed housing, though apart from the Sydenham hill Estate at the top of the hill it doesn't look as though the volume of housing was particularly increased? They just replaced nice houses with bland ones. The need for housing is of course stronger than ever and so if changes have to be made I think the council and eveyone else owe it to this part of Sydenham to try and put right some of the damage and see it as a great oppourtnity to build attractive and well thought out housing that might last a bit longer this time.
Check this out... The timber cottages on the right of the first photo with all the bushes was called Springfield Gardens, which no longer exists at the top of Springfield Rise; one of the Sydenham Hill Estate blocks was built right next to the site, behind the 3 houses at the top of Oaksford Avenue. The chimney can be seen in several photos in the Sydenham local history books, including the views from Wells Park, Coombe Road, and the Springfield Villa. Without reading the article, in a nutshell, this generating station was used to supply the Crystal Palace!
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Wispy Wonder
- Posts: 137
- Joined: 11 Jan 2006 22:13
- Location: Sydenham
I'll check out what I got for the centre of sydenham later on, but I definitely don't have anything on Venner Road unfortunately; I mainly collect photos of Upper Sydenham and Crystal Palace areas. However, I did also live in Lower Sydenham for a couple of years, and once knew a babysitter in Venner Road.
Here's the pub that was near Hensford Gardens...
Here's the pub that was near Hensford Gardens...
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Illuminance
- Posts: 84
- Joined: 14 Mar 2005 16:49
- Location: Tunbridge Wells
Fantastic pictures!
The revised plan was to compulsory purchase a large chunk of residents' back gardens (which used to stretch down to the railway line) and demolish 9 and 45 only to create access roads, namely Bays Close and Copeman Close.
Rolf & Co also helped save part of Lawrie Park Road around the late seventies. Numbers 9 through 45 were going to be flattened and replaced with an estate.nasaroc wrote: However, it's easy to look back and see what a catastrophic mistake this was. At the time, it was happening all over the country and the vast majority of the public believed that it was a good thing - sweep away all of these ugly Edwardian and Victorian houses and welcome the high-rise future. The only people opposing these schemes locally were the nascent Sydenham Society led by Rolf Harris (yes, the same man, who lived in Border Road at the time). It's difficult to believe it now but their conservation views were regarded as totally extreme in the sixties and early seventies. Luckily, they were able to turn the tide of opinion against this policy - otherwise this entire area would now be covered in high-rises.
The revised plan was to compulsory purchase a large chunk of residents' back gardens (which used to stretch down to the railway line) and demolish 9 and 45 only to create access roads, namely Bays Close and Copeman Close.
falkor those are great pictures!
i have maps [old] of the area but to see actual photos is nice.
do you have any of the steets that were there before the wells park esate was built?
and do you know if there was ever an allotment there?[not the one that is there now at the back of the estate]i mean the area that is now prospect close,it would settle a dispute that i had with a friend!
thanks
leaf
i have maps [old] of the area but to see actual photos is nice.
do you have any of the steets that were there before the wells park esate was built?
and do you know if there was ever an allotment there?[not the one that is there now at the back of the estate]i mean the area that is now prospect close,it would settle a dispute that i had with a friend!
thanks
leaf
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Steve Grindlay
- Posts: 606
- Joined: 4 Oct 2004 05:07
- Location: Upper Sydenham