Moderator, please!
Surely saying D**** M*** is banned?
This is about class in the taste sense. The Dolphin's not just been modernised - The Windmill and The Greyhound have had money spent on them recently too and they are Wetherspoons-level nasty.
The Dolphin owners clearly have good taste (they chose Sydenham). With the minimum amount of adjustment they have preserved all that's good and got rid of all that was bad in the place. That's my opinion (I'm not the Trinny or Susannah of pubs) but it seems to be the consensus here.
However, my partner and I recently got chatting to a member of the Sydenham Society (not Pat Trembath). We said that we were looking forward to the Dolphin openeing and this person pulled a face. 'Oh, I can't stand what they did to the Dartmouth Arms,' they said. 'It's hideous.'
Now that confused me. Was the sticky pub carpet listed?
The Dolphin
"Moderator, please!
Surely saying D**** M*** is banned?"
It should be!
re the windmill,did you know that it wasnt a 'done up' pub,it was purpose built a few years back,it was always like that!
I agree that this does have a lot to do with taste and going by what the person you spoke to said,you cant please everyone!
Surely saying D**** M*** is banned?"
It should be!
re the windmill,did you know that it wasnt a 'done up' pub,it was purpose built a few years back,it was always like that!
I agree that this does have a lot to do with taste and going by what the person you spoke to said,you cant please everyone!
No Julwz,im not suggesting that,but others have said in so many words that if they did they wouldnt be welcome.
again i will say,i wish every success to the dolphins owners and patrons,i have responded to this thread the way i have because of some comments made pages back about pubs and council estate residents-i am obviously the only one who feels those comments were less than fair,but hey ho,we are all different!
again i will say,i wish every success to the dolphins owners and patrons,i have responded to this thread the way i have because of some comments made pages back about pubs and council estate residents-i am obviously the only one who feels those comments were less than fair,but hey ho,we are all different!
-
still_robbo
- Posts: 46
- Joined: 24 Oct 2004 22:13
- Location: Newlands Park
-
Pat Trembath
- Posts: 613
- Joined: 2 Oct 2004 10:54
With 1110 members in the Sydenham Society I'm sure that there are diverse views about many subjects, including pubs. The Society has no set policy as to what sort of pub our members should like or not like.castiron73 wrote:
However, my partner and I recently got chatting to a member of the Sydenham Society (not Pat Trembath). We said that we were looking forward to the Dolphin openeing and this person pulled a face. 'Oh, I can't stand what they did to the Dartmouth Arms,' they said. 'It's hideous.'
Now that confused me. Was the sticky pub carpet listed?
On a personal basis I liked the transformation of the DA in Forest Hill and was only too pleased to see that its owners, Michael and Violeta, were prepared to invest in Sydenham. The Dolphin provides a different type of venue to most of the other pubs in Sydenham and I welcome its arrival. May it flourish!
-
castiron73
- Posts: 132
- Joined: 24 Oct 2006 10:05
- Location: Sydenham Thorpes
The discussion of council estates was entirely separate to the discussion about the former clientele of the Dolphin. I said that I'd grown up on an estate and pointed out that while the majority are perfectly decent, a large minority spoil things for others. This was nothing to do with the pubs in Sydenham but in response to a question about class (and also to the 'Hug a Hoodie' tone of previous posts).
Of course, a minority of 'middle class' people spoil things for others too, putting up satellite dishes in conservation areas, driving 4x4s and draining all fun from a debate by refusing to allow sweeping generalisations.
Neither did I imagine that the Sydenham Society has an official policy on pubs. But this was someone quite involved. I found it interesting that she was against something that retained and made popular the historic character and purpose of a building.
Surely the whole point of the Society is to make Sydenham more middle class? If not, why campaign against a betting shop opening in the high street in 'garish' red paintwork, and yet love the bookshop in the same red?
Of course, a minority of 'middle class' people spoil things for others too, putting up satellite dishes in conservation areas, driving 4x4s and draining all fun from a debate by refusing to allow sweeping generalisations.
Neither did I imagine that the Sydenham Society has an official policy on pubs. But this was someone quite involved. I found it interesting that she was against something that retained and made popular the historic character and purpose of a building.
Surely the whole point of the Society is to make Sydenham more middle class? If not, why campaign against a betting shop opening in the high street in 'garish' red paintwork, and yet love the bookshop in the same red?
"The discussion of council estates was entirely separate to the discussion about the former clientele of the Dolphin. I said that I'd grown up on an estate and pointed out that while the majority are perfectly decent, a large minority spoil things for others. This was nothing to do with the pubs in Sydenham but in response to a question about class (and also to the 'Hug a Hoodie' tone of previous posts).
Of course, a minority of 'middle class' people spoil things for others too, putting up satellite dishes in conservation areas, driving 4x4s and draining all fun from a debate by refusing to allow sweeping generalisations."
It doesnt seem possible to have a discussion about sydenham pubs without council estates etc coming into the conversation.
Of course, a minority of 'middle class' people spoil things for others too, putting up satellite dishes in conservation areas, driving 4x4s and draining all fun from a debate by refusing to allow sweeping generalisations."
It doesnt seem possible to have a discussion about sydenham pubs without council estates etc coming into the conversation.
-
Greg Whitehead
- Posts: 474
- Joined: 11 Apr 2005 15:44
- Location: SE26 5RL
I'm sure there will be 'working-class' people in T.D Julwz. As Leaf has rightly pointed out it is exactly these types that keep a pub ticking over, particularly in the daytime, as being on the rock'n'roll they have alot of spare time to spend in pubsJuwlz wrote:leaf
Surely you can't be suggesting that no working class people are going to frequent the new Dolphin? Are the prices of the drinks significantly more expensive in the new Dolphin compared to the old?
Being serious though whilst the prices aren't phenomenally higher than the old boozer I think we're missing the point here. Admin himself in his write-up stated that the Dolphin was deliberately targeting a more up-market clientele. It has done that with it's menu and choice of drinks along with it's decor and no-smoking policy. I shouldn't feel the need to nor will I apologise for championing the owners for excluding a certain section by doing this. I do not wish to sit or stand near to the white-trainer, Burberry-cap wearing brigade and listening to their tales of crime being punctuated by "Bruv' and "innit" (note the lack of question mark) with the impending threat of violence lingering in the air. There are enough places more in step with the wants of this class of person in Sydenham and they are more than catered for. More to the point I wonder how much they'll like the new Dolphin - probably not a great deal. Again, I'm not a lone dissenting voice, as Nasaroc has offered previous, there's a very clear division in Sydenham and it's roughly 50/50. I think it's time to put this argument to bed? Nasaroc - perhaps you could enlighten some forum members as to the fact that Sydenham isn't "poor" (their words not mine). Bleeding heart liberal types here on this forum often state that the right for a clean and safe 'pub' is the pre-requisite and should be expected, nay demanded by all and they are correct but when a certain section are the ones that make it unsafe and run the places into the ground (the Greyhound's loos, anyone?) then surely the other section can have somewhere to their tastes also - even very much at the exclusion of the other?
It may be exclusive, it may be snobbish but I'm entitled to my view. There are plenty of Stella & chicken-in-a-basket pubs in Sydenham. I (and others) have my enclave and I'm happy - I'll show my support in spades to T.D. by spending my considerably higher disposable income there rather than in town or anywhere else in Sydenham. Simple economics dictate that with all the others with similar views to mine giving their support on this forum and by spending money regaularly in T.D. then it'll be success - something that none of the pubs in Sydenham have ever been nor look like they are likely to be - or will that just be coincidence?
*Yawn* - even I'm tired of this now.
Last edited by Greg Whitehead on 18 Dec 2006 19:24, edited 1 time in total.
Great to see another comment on the food available, let's get more of those comments.
I have already given feedback on the food that we have eaten there so won't reiterate.
Just a quick one on the beer. I have had the Pride, and also the Hooky Bitter, both very good ales which seem to be well kept in the Dolphin, so well done for that.
Not so keen to see extra cold Guinness, poured in one go by some staff and slopped over the glass - sacrelige
Will have to continue to use the good old Golden Lion for my Guinness needs
Each to their own I suppose.
I have not tried the wine list, but heard mixed things about it from someone the other night - anyone got any feedback on that?
Any nice ones in there to look out for?
As regards the atmosphere, I think it could be improved if some of the staff were a bit more welcoming - although some of them are great, making sure we are happy with the food etc, some of them are a bit stand-offish, maybe they are just not good at small talk (or maybe its just not the kind of bar where staff chat to customers, but the other night there were loads of staff on with few customers, and they basically started clearing up around us an hour before closing time, even to the point of clearing away my pint when I briefly went to the gents, gives you a funny feeling that they would prefer for u to just bog off home so they can close early. Lots of people took the hint as well I noticed). Guess that is just a training issue though, they seem really nice but maybe inexperienced.
The place is looking even better now with proper signage, really cool, also nice lighting and classy looking b/w photos, well done to whoever designed it all.
Finally, just wondering how many of the people who so keenly anticipated the opening of the Dolphin, or have debated it on this forum, have actually now put their money where their "mouse" is and gone there for drinks and / or food?
If you did, post a comment on what you thought of it so that the owners get some feedback and can improve the place even more and the rest of us get a better idea of what might be good to order there.
I have already given feedback on the food that we have eaten there so won't reiterate.
Just a quick one on the beer. I have had the Pride, and also the Hooky Bitter, both very good ales which seem to be well kept in the Dolphin, so well done for that.
Not so keen to see extra cold Guinness, poured in one go by some staff and slopped over the glass - sacrelige
Will have to continue to use the good old Golden Lion for my Guinness needs
Each to their own I suppose.I have not tried the wine list, but heard mixed things about it from someone the other night - anyone got any feedback on that?
Any nice ones in there to look out for?
As regards the atmosphere, I think it could be improved if some of the staff were a bit more welcoming - although some of them are great, making sure we are happy with the food etc, some of them are a bit stand-offish, maybe they are just not good at small talk (or maybe its just not the kind of bar where staff chat to customers, but the other night there were loads of staff on with few customers, and they basically started clearing up around us an hour before closing time, even to the point of clearing away my pint when I briefly went to the gents, gives you a funny feeling that they would prefer for u to just bog off home so they can close early. Lots of people took the hint as well I noticed). Guess that is just a training issue though, they seem really nice but maybe inexperienced.
The place is looking even better now with proper signage, really cool, also nice lighting and classy looking b/w photos, well done to whoever designed it all.
Finally, just wondering how many of the people who so keenly anticipated the opening of the Dolphin, or have debated it on this forum, have actually now put their money where their "mouse" is and gone there for drinks and / or food?
If you did, post a comment on what you thought of it so that the owners get some feedback and can improve the place even more and the rest of us get a better idea of what might be good to order there.
-
danstevens
- Posts: 116
- Joined: 6 Oct 2004 09:46
- Location: Sydenham
popped in yesterday evening for the first time. Had a couple of pints of London Pride which tasted pretty good. Agree that the staff are a bit stand off ish - but probably need time to settle in and get used to the place and us lot.
In terms of the general ambience of the place I quite liked it. Loads of space that could be used more efficiently in terms of seating should the need arise. Agree with an earlier poster here that the room could do with something to break it up a bit / make it a bit more interesting. One other very minor thing was the nasty cheap looking speakers that are mounted near the ceiling. I counted no less the seven of them. No problem with music being played, but they just look out of place.
But overall, really liked the place and will be back
cheers - dan
In terms of the general ambience of the place I quite liked it. Loads of space that could be used more efficiently in terms of seating should the need arise. Agree with an earlier poster here that the room could do with something to break it up a bit / make it a bit more interesting. One other very minor thing was the nasty cheap looking speakers that are mounted near the ceiling. I counted no less the seven of them. No problem with music being played, but they just look out of place.
But overall, really liked the place and will be back
cheers - dan
Back to the actual pub, rather than its clientele (or former clientele).
1. Food - mixed. Cauliflower cheese dreadful, with veg so soft it was almost a puree. Fish pie fresh and well filled but too little sauce. Bread OK but not distinctive enough given that it was home made. Croquettes could have come from a frozen freezer pack (I don't think that they did, but they may as well have done.) Salad unobjectionable.
Very little variety for vegetarians. Also the single price for a dish, no matter what you eat means that the veggie dishes are poor value. I hope that the menu is going to change weekly.
2. Service - generally dreadful. Staff knew nothing (about the wine, the food, the serving hours...) and didn't want to find out. Also hopeless at taking (positive, cheerful, helpful) feedback about what we'd like to see on the menu.
3. Drinks. Lots of nice wine by the glass. Would be good to see a local beer.
4. General ambience: lovely. Great atmosphere. Nice furniture. Easy lighting. No smoking! It's such a joy.
I hope that it all settles down.
1. Food - mixed. Cauliflower cheese dreadful, with veg so soft it was almost a puree. Fish pie fresh and well filled but too little sauce. Bread OK but not distinctive enough given that it was home made. Croquettes could have come from a frozen freezer pack (I don't think that they did, but they may as well have done.) Salad unobjectionable.
Very little variety for vegetarians. Also the single price for a dish, no matter what you eat means that the veggie dishes are poor value. I hope that the menu is going to change weekly.
2. Service - generally dreadful. Staff knew nothing (about the wine, the food, the serving hours...) and didn't want to find out. Also hopeless at taking (positive, cheerful, helpful) feedback about what we'd like to see on the menu.
3. Drinks. Lots of nice wine by the glass. Would be good to see a local beer.
4. General ambience: lovely. Great atmosphere. Nice furniture. Easy lighting. No smoking! It's such a joy.
I hope that it all settles down.
Nice to find somebody talking about the pub again at last.
I popped in there yesterday at around 6.30 or so and there were only 4 other punters the whole time I was there. Perhaps it gets busy later but no sign of the after-work commuter crowd that many successful pubs depend on.
The four people who had bothered to turn up all seemed to be friendly working-class locals. No doubt this will be particularly upsetting to those posters who seem to feel that modern, smoke-free, comfortable environments should be the exclusive realm of the middle classes.
Personally, I feel that the best kind of pub is one in which people of all classes, ethnic backgrounds and ages (including children) are made equally welcome and feel safe, comfortable and relaxed.
Here's to hoping that the Dolphin will be such a pub.
I popped in there yesterday at around 6.30 or so and there were only 4 other punters the whole time I was there. Perhaps it gets busy later but no sign of the after-work commuter crowd that many successful pubs depend on.
The four people who had bothered to turn up all seemed to be friendly working-class locals. No doubt this will be particularly upsetting to those posters who seem to feel that modern, smoke-free, comfortable environments should be the exclusive realm of the middle classes.
Personally, I feel that the best kind of pub is one in which people of all classes, ethnic backgrounds and ages (including children) are made equally welcome and feel safe, comfortable and relaxed.
Here's to hoping that the Dolphin will be such a pub.