Not sure what the problem is.

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Eagle
Posts: 10658
Joined: 7 Oct 2004 06:36
Location: F Hill

Not sure what the problem is.

Post by Eagle » 18 Jun 2015 14:59

Admin
Your pronouncement that I am at fault , rather than the rude responses is quite amazing. I do appreciate your decision is final , although it may be rather strange.

Seems if one insults you get further on this Forum than polite responses. However I will not change and use the same insults as others.

I am just puzzled what I have written which has offended you. It is a major news item.

Anyway as I try to be polite I wish you all the best .

somerandombloke
Posts: 599
Joined: 9 Jan 2015 20:01
Location: the elephant enclosure

Re: Not sure what the problem is.

Post by somerandombloke » 18 Jun 2015 15:05

Can you honestly not see why your moan about race being mentioned in a news item about racist murder is not just offensive but just plain stupid? Really honestly hand on your heart? If you can your just being offensive and using a tragic story to air your prejuidises once again. If you cant your as thick as two short planks. Choose one.

admin
Site Admin
Posts: 2533
Joined: 20 Sep 2004 21:49

Re: Not sure what the problem is.

Post by admin » 18 Jun 2015 15:29

Eagle - I did ask you to respond by PM which you have deliberately ignored. Hence I have to say what I would have preferred to say privately in public.

You are solely responsible for your post. You cannot pin that on anyone else. As I said it was either a deliberate troll/wind-up or an extremely ignorant and insensitive post. The effect is the same - to cause a vitriolic response. You have to share responsibility for that too. Attempting to use those to cover your post is unhelpful, even counter-productive.

Your continued denial in this matter is of no help and, I have to say, not unexpected. That is precisely why I asked you to withdraw from the thread as it could add to further insensitive provocation. And before you further accuse others of rudeness you may wish to re-read the complaints about your own rudeness and insensitivity. Its always easier to see it in others than oneself.

A little more self awareness about this would help. You are not the only sinner in this regard and I don't want to start a league table. Neither do I want to stop you contributing to the forum. But continually poking people with pins and then complaining when they yell back does make that more difficult.

Grateful if we could all conclude this discussion now.

Admin

Addendum - if you are still puzzled about the cause - the answers were in the follow up posts. Re-read until it comes home.

Rachael
Posts: 2420
Joined: 23 Jan 2010 13:42
Location: Sydenham / Forest Hill Intersection

Re: Not sure what the problem is.

Post by Rachael » 18 Jun 2015 18:01

Eagle - try to ignore the responses in whatever form they came and re-examine the statement you made that race should not have been mentioned in the context of this crime. Given that it has been made clear during the course of the day that these people were killed because they were black, can you understand that in this case it was not only appropriate but essential that race be mentioned?

Smiffy
Posts: 253
Joined: 21 Jun 2014 10:53
Location: Upstairs in the spare room

Re: Not sure what the problem is.

Post by Smiffy » 18 Jun 2015 18:46

Eagle wrote:Admin
Your pronouncement that I am at fault , rather than the rude responses is quite amazing. I do appreciate your decision is final , although it may be rather strange.

Seems if one insults you get further on this Forum than polite responses. However I will not change and use the same insults as others.

I am just puzzled what I have written which has offended you. It is a major news item.

Anyway as I try to be polite I wish you all the best .
Same old MO, feign puzzlement then make out you're a polite harmless old gent who's being picked on when caught out making outrageous and/or indefensible statements. You keep doing this. Why?

somerandombloke
Posts: 599
Joined: 9 Jan 2015 20:01
Location: the elephant enclosure

Re: Not sure what the problem is.

Post by somerandombloke » 18 Jun 2015 18:53

Smiffy wrote:Same old MO, feign puzzlement then make out you're a polite harmless old gent who's being picked on when caught out making outrageous and/or indefensible statements. You keep doing this. Why?
Because hes a nasty old bastard who hates to be wrong yet posts utter rubbish that has no depth or fondation. And when he realise hes been called on his transperantly unpleasant crap he has no recource but to play the wronged old buffer because he cant actully make a valid argument.

It could be so diferent for you Eagle tehre are a load of nise people here whod love to engage with you talk about stuff in a proper environment have a structered debate but instead you insist on the sort of sly creepy nasty stuff yu postd earlier alienating everyone. Sad sad old man.

Rachael
Posts: 2420
Joined: 23 Jan 2010 13:42
Location: Sydenham / Forest Hill Intersection

Re: Not sure what the problem is.

Post by Rachael » 18 Jun 2015 20:05

somerandombloke wrote: And when he realise hes been called on his transperantly unpleasant crap he has no recource but to play the wronged old buffer because he cant actully make a valid argument.
So stop giving him ammunition for this argument. Quit the name-calling and he won't be able to claim he's more wronged by than wronging. I posted here to see if I could get a straight answer out of Eagle - I've found that being polite to him (whatever I think of what he has said) sometimes actually results in a constructive debate and even, occasionally, him changing his mind. So if everyone could pipe down and let Eagle answer my question, I'd be grateful.

Pally
Posts: 1457
Joined: 2 Aug 2014 05:38
Location: Sydenham

Re: Not sure what the problem is.

Post by Pally » 18 Jun 2015 20:47

Rachael wrote:
somerandombloke wrote: And when he realise hes been called on his transperantly unpleasant crap he has no recource but to play the wronged old buffer because he cant actully make a valid argument.
So stop giving him ammunition for this argument. Quit the name-calling and he won't be able to claim he's more wronged by than wronging. I posted here to see if I could get a straight answer out of Eagle - I've found that being polite to him (whatever I think of what he has said) sometimes actually results in a constructive debate and even, occasionally, him changing his mind. So if everyone could pipe down and let Eagle answer my question, I'd be grateful.
Rachael ....well said! Exactly what I have been trying to say in various threads ....but apparently unsuccessfully, as in the end I just feel I have to give up!

Eagle ...it really would be interesting to hear your viewpoint on Rachael's very clear explanation

somerandombloke
Posts: 599
Joined: 9 Jan 2015 20:01
Location: the elephant enclosure

Re: Not sure what the problem is.

Post by somerandombloke » 18 Jun 2015 21:53

Me and HB among ohters have bothbeen polite and calmly asked for clarification on quite a few of Eagles posts and never ever got a straight clear answer. Your aftet a lost cause.

Rachael
Posts: 2420
Joined: 23 Jan 2010 13:42
Location: Sydenham / Forest Hill Intersection

Re: Not sure what the problem is.

Post by Rachael » 19 Jun 2015 06:20

somerandombloke wrote:Me and HB among ohters have bothbeen polite and calmly asked for clarification on quite a few of Eagles posts and never ever got a straight clear answer. Your aftet a lost cause.
I've had more straight answers of of Eagle than either of you. You may sometimes be polite, but you are also sometimes quite rude. Which is your prerogative in the Pub. But it's counter-productive. It doesn't get you anywhere and gives Eagle a get out clause for not replying. So why carry on doing it? The three of you go round and round in circles and even though I agree with your view point most of the time, all three of you (Eagle, you and _HB) end up in a boring, troll-like never-end circle of insults and evasions. Every. Single. Time. Your strategy is not working. Try another one.

I'll also stick my neck out and say I think Admin intervened too quickly in that particular thread. I think the voices of many other forum readers should have been given a chance to be heard, and Eagle's responses too. As someone occasionally dipping into that thread to how many circles it had gone in, I certainly would have chimed in at that point.

somerandombloke
Posts: 599
Joined: 9 Jan 2015 20:01
Location: the elephant enclosure

Re: Not sure what the problem is.

Post by somerandombloke » 19 Jun 2015 07:37

A couple of points here before the taxi arrives (off workin in one of them mega mosques in the Emirates for a few days).

1 I have never evaded a question from you or from anybody else. OK so my typing aint wonderful what with the dislexia and one or two other bits and bobbs but I will always give a 100% straight answer to any question that pout to me.

2 If Eagle the ytpe who needs a get out clause for not replying to a perfectly reasonable request for clarification to one of his posts then there is indeed no poitn whatsoever in engaging with him at all we can just assume that every thing he say is insubstantial nonsense. Your right it just go around in circles.

3 Rude? Me? Check out pretty much every response to any of my posts Eagle has ever made. Chec out his first ever response to me. Check out his nickname for me.

See you next week. Play nice.

wrightie
Posts: 52
Joined: 28 Aug 2005 10:24
Location: Adamsrill

Re: Not sure what the problem is.

Post by wrightie » 19 Jun 2015 07:58

I think the voices of many other forum readers should have been given a chance to be heard...
I doubt many would have bothered. I often start to post, then scratch the idea. This time I watched in horror and disbelief. After an absence and reformation, Eagle appears to have returned to form. Sad, as I'm reluctantly forced to agree that he sometimes raises interesting points, his motives are however questionable. I like most don't have the energy to engage in one sided debate. He takes particular pleasure in bear baiting, engaging on threads covering particularly emotive issues, feigning ignorance, hiding behind his age, and its that I find insulting and offensive.

Rachael
Posts: 2420
Joined: 23 Jan 2010 13:42
Location: Sydenham / Forest Hill Intersection

Re: Not sure what the problem is.

Post by Rachael » 19 Jun 2015 09:00

SRB:

To answer your points in order:
1. I never said you were evasive. That was a general comment on the nature of these threads and I apologise if that wasn't clear.
2. You seem to be agreeing with me here.
3. Lots of people are rude on here. As I stated, it's your and everyone else's right in the pub. I don't mind it, don't care who started it first. Carry on, by all means. But it doesn't get you anywhere with Eagle. You know it doesn't. So why carry on? If you engage with him because you think it's important and the method you currently use is not working, try something else. You can't say it's a lost cause until you have.
Last edited by Rachael on 19 Jun 2015 10:09, edited 1 time in total.

admin
Site Admin
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Joined: 20 Sep 2004 21:49

Re: Not sure what the problem is.

Post by admin » 19 Jun 2015 09:33

May I remind everyone that personal abuse should only be between consenting adults in Town Pub, not here. I know that's difficult but can we try and make this debate a bit more constructive and less personal?

I was faced, as I have been many times before and not always by the same person, a post that had the appearance of a troll/wind-up about a fresh tragedy. It can be argued the post was made innocently, perhaps without thought to how people may react. I have taken the position it is not my job to judge that - because the reaction will be the same.

So how should we handle troll-like posts? The easy answer is "don't feed the trolls". A respectful silence, or a thousand caustic responses ending just short of the submit button would be my answer. But I understand that others feel they can't just let it lie, they must challenge and/or educate the poster. That's what happened. Perhaps I too reacted too quickly to those reactions.

So it comes down to Rachael's point about our responses are not working. Do you agree? So where do we go from here?

Admin

Robin Orton
Posts: 3185
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Location: London SE26

Re: Not sure what the problem is.

Post by Robin Orton » 19 Jun 2015 10:12

admin wrote: But I understand that others feel they can't just let it lie, they must challenge and/or educate the poster.
I used to feel like that, but have now accepted that it's pointless and rarely, if ever, respond to Eagle. I am sure he posts just to wind people up. But so do I, sometimes. Does that make us both trolls?

_HB

Re: Not sure what the problem is.

Post by _HB » 19 Jun 2015 10:34

This is quite a small community so I'm going to take onboard the criticism/advice both implied and explicit in this thread. The best way that I can do that is to just stop engaging with Eagle. Wish me luck. That means I'm counting on the rest of you to take him down when he starts his nonsense :lol:
Robin Orton wrote:Does that make us both trolls?
The word is now used so widely as to be rendered meaningless. Posting to stir things up a bit and have a bit of fun is not trolling. Posting to deliberately cause offence and upset is trolling. You are not a troll. Eagle is.

Smiffy
Posts: 253
Joined: 21 Jun 2014 10:53
Location: Upstairs in the spare room

Re: Not sure what the problem is.

Post by Smiffy » 19 Jun 2015 10:38

Unfortunately due to the sheer number of posts he is not easy to ignore. Someone is always going to bite.
I liken him to prolific spammers where the where the output is mostly dismissed but the response rate is enough to get the reward. For a spammer it's financial, in Eagle's case it's attention. And it works. We're all talking about him again, he's got what he wants.

Katie Hopkins probably based her media career on his formula.

somerandombloke
Posts: 599
Joined: 9 Jan 2015 20:01
Location: the elephant enclosure

Re: Not sure what the problem is.

Post by somerandombloke » 19 Jun 2015 10:43

Plane delayed so a quick post to sa that yes i agree I aint gonna respond to Eagle anymore. Inshallah.

chrisj1948
Posts: 501
Joined: 15 Jul 2008 15:12
Location: Sydenham

Re: Not sure what the problem is.

Post by chrisj1948 » 19 Jun 2015 10:50

admin wrote: So how should we handle troll-like posts? The easy answer is "don't feed the trolls". A respectful silence, or a thousand caustic responses ending just short of the submit button would be my answer. But I understand that others feel they can't just let it lie, they must challenge and/or educate the poster. That's what happened. Perhaps I too reacted too quickly to
The option to move any discussion which has become too 'robust' to the Town Pub is a good one. I would use it a lot more often than Admin does.

Personal abuse should be forbidden. "you are a ****", and its close relatives in the "your ideas are ****" family should be treated with a stern warning, and then thread closure. "Your proposition is ****" should be allowable, since in that case it is the proposition and not the poster which is being abused.

In Town Pub jocular personal abuse should be allowed. This is a judgement call.

All of which makes for more work for our poor Admin :-(

Regards
Chris

michael
Posts: 1266
Joined: 26 Sep 2006 12:56
Location: Forest Hill

Re: Not sure what the problem is.

Post by michael » 19 Jun 2015 10:52

admin wrote: So it comes down to Rachael's point about our responses are not working. Do you agree? So where do we go from here?
I know where I've gone, like many before.
https://sydenham.org.uk/forum/viewtopic ... 23#p112223
'A respectful silence' and 'don't feed the trolls' was simply no longer a good enough response.
For those of you who believe 'a respectful silence' is appropriate, I would just point out that unless such a silence is maintained by all, it is not a silence, and the troll continues to be fed. This was a major part of my decision to walk away (in what I hoped others enjoyed at least as a humorous, if futile, flounce) rather than to continue to associate with the consistent behaviour demonstrated in this online community.

[Flounces off again]

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