I dont know if this is the right forum - but its as close as i can get
Basically my brother and i are lookin to buy a commercial property on this road. he seems very sure of the area as a local londoner etc
i myself am resident oop north and saw the area for the first time yesterday and was a bit put off.
the area seems to be in decline - bluntly put - is that just a general trend or is there a reason?
there was a few fire wrenched shops too - but one of them was a timberyard so i assume that was just unlucky or was that arson?
there was just one too many closed shops on the stretch which we'd seen - the one with a londis shut down
a few questions about High Street, Penge
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scott.l.hamilton
- Posts: 120
- Joined: 28 Jan 2008 11:51
- Location: SE26
IMHO, depending on the business he is looking to establish, Sydenham is a better commercial "bet" than Penge.
I am currently working on a Sydenham "high street" development initiative with residents, traders, the council and some freeholders. Please feel free to PM and we can talk in more detail. I may be able to offer him some help....
I am currently working on a Sydenham "high street" development initiative with residents, traders, the council and some freeholders. Please feel free to PM and we can talk in more detail. I may be able to offer him some help....
My best advice would have been to go to the Penge Forum meeting. But that was last night.
Penge Forum is the place to meet traders, leading residents and other interest groups. Hear about issues, solutions, developments etc. And to network with the people you need to be a successful trader. Their next meeting is October 8th. You can contact their convenor at http://www.communigate.co.uk/london/pengeforum/
I shop in both Penge & Sydenham.
Penge has been the better shopping centre being more compact with a Woolies and a very good Sainsbury. Sadly it has not been well looked after by the local authority (Bromley) losing its street market and the imposition of parking meters. The closure of Edgingtons at Christmas has created an opportunity or left a hole depending on your point of view. Penge, like Sydenham will benefit from improved train/TfL services (on both lines) and already has the tram. Penge has been thought downmarket from Sydenham but the recent re-opening of the Bridge House Tavern (http://forum.sydenham.org.uk/viewtopic.php?t=1726) has astounded everyone. Where did all those "young professionals" come from? I have a feeling it is on the edge of a great regeneration.
People are working very hard for that in Sydenham. The council (Lewisham), despite our frequent moans, is sympathetic and it looks like a couple of million will be coming along to make some physical improvements. Do take Scott up on his offer. IMHO the rise & rise of both Penge & Sydenham are linked. Folks from all over London are reassessing this corner of London. We have great housing, great greenery at exciting prices. That is why home prices have been rising in this area while collapsing north of the river.
Even East Dulwichers are looking south for value. I hope you get some of it.
Admin
PS Nowhere in London is crime free but according to the Met we are in one of the 'less worse' areas. You can see the worst being discussed here is some unsocial behaviour by youngsters in a particular street. Lots of areas of London would be happy to have that as their problem. There is community cohesion where both rich & poor mostly jog along with each other. If you want less crime - leave London!
Penge Forum is the place to meet traders, leading residents and other interest groups. Hear about issues, solutions, developments etc. And to network with the people you need to be a successful trader. Their next meeting is October 8th. You can contact their convenor at http://www.communigate.co.uk/london/pengeforum/
I shop in both Penge & Sydenham.
Penge has been the better shopping centre being more compact with a Woolies and a very good Sainsbury. Sadly it has not been well looked after by the local authority (Bromley) losing its street market and the imposition of parking meters. The closure of Edgingtons at Christmas has created an opportunity or left a hole depending on your point of view. Penge, like Sydenham will benefit from improved train/TfL services (on both lines) and already has the tram. Penge has been thought downmarket from Sydenham but the recent re-opening of the Bridge House Tavern (http://forum.sydenham.org.uk/viewtopic.php?t=1726) has astounded everyone. Where did all those "young professionals" come from? I have a feeling it is on the edge of a great regeneration.
People are working very hard for that in Sydenham. The council (Lewisham), despite our frequent moans, is sympathetic and it looks like a couple of million will be coming along to make some physical improvements. Do take Scott up on his offer. IMHO the rise & rise of both Penge & Sydenham are linked. Folks from all over London are reassessing this corner of London. We have great housing, great greenery at exciting prices. That is why home prices have been rising in this area while collapsing north of the river.
Even East Dulwichers are looking south for value. I hope you get some of it.
Admin
PS Nowhere in London is crime free but according to the Met we are in one of the 'less worse' areas. You can see the worst being discussed here is some unsocial behaviour by youngsters in a particular street. Lots of areas of London would be happy to have that as their problem. There is community cohesion where both rich & poor mostly jog along with each other. If you want less crime - leave London!
penge high street
Very, very well put Admin 
Both Sydenham and Penge High Streets have certainly seen better days.
Personally I find the moment you go under the bridge at the bottom of Crystal Palace Park Road into Penge it's pretty grim all the way up to Beckenham.
Sydenham has certainly seen better days and could with getting rid of all the ghastly pound shops, nail bars and burger joints.
It depends what sort of shop you want to open but the Crystal Palace triangle is probably a much better bet than either of them.
Personally I find the moment you go under the bridge at the bottom of Crystal Palace Park Road into Penge it's pretty grim all the way up to Beckenham.
Sydenham has certainly seen better days and could with getting rid of all the ghastly pound shops, nail bars and burger joints.
It depends what sort of shop you want to open but the Crystal Palace triangle is probably a much better bet than either of them.
Neither Penge nor Sydenham are in decline, there's a massive pent up demand for upmarket businesses and hopefully your proposed business is upmarket - right? please say so!. Your brother is right so listen to him - though you did right to consult this forum because everything that admin has said is correct.
Crystal palace is ok, but definately Not a better bet that Sydenham or Penge. It already has quite a few decent shops– i 'm sure that there's room for more, but the Cp one way system makes it a bit of a nightmare to shop there if you're driving. Sydenham has better parking and great transport links and has the bigger pent up demand for better quality shops. I think Penge has a very attractive high street, with loads of potential too, and as can be seen by the popularilty of the Bridge house tavern, has the demand for the upmarket types of business. From a commercial point of view i'd say Sydenham would slightly have the edge because of the current lack of competition, but either Penge or Syd are a great bet.
GO FOR IT - GOOD LUCK!!!
Crystal palace is ok, but definately Not a better bet that Sydenham or Penge. It already has quite a few decent shops– i 'm sure that there's room for more, but the Cp one way system makes it a bit of a nightmare to shop there if you're driving. Sydenham has better parking and great transport links and has the bigger pent up demand for better quality shops. I think Penge has a very attractive high street, with loads of potential too, and as can be seen by the popularilty of the Bridge house tavern, has the demand for the upmarket types of business. From a commercial point of view i'd say Sydenham would slightly have the edge because of the current lack of competition, but either Penge or Syd are a great bet.
GO FOR IT - GOOD LUCK!!!
hi folks
thanks for all your inputs - as much as i'd like to go to the forums - sadly i cant as i'm oop north in lancashire! i do regulary go to the local council meetings in my area so hopefully once it becomes set for the down south thing you should be seeing a new face there
though saying that october 6th could be a date i could make. but thats still a long way off
i've been doing a fair bit of research on the area it does seem that its ready to be put into bloom - its like the whole area is just waiting for something to happen and from the looks of it it wont be too long.
juwlz - sadly i dont think its gonna be the high end shop ur probably hoping for but who knows - if there's demand then who's to say u cant keep it?
the property in question will be officially signed over in the next two weeks - i've seen the architectural plans and i think they will improve the row
thanks for all your inputs - as much as i'd like to go to the forums - sadly i cant as i'm oop north in lancashire! i do regulary go to the local council meetings in my area so hopefully once it becomes set for the down south thing you should be seeing a new face there
though saying that october 6th could be a date i could make. but thats still a long way off
i've been doing a fair bit of research on the area it does seem that its ready to be put into bloom - its like the whole area is just waiting for something to happen and from the looks of it it wont be too long.
juwlz - sadly i dont think its gonna be the high end shop ur probably hoping for but who knows - if there's demand then who's to say u cant keep it?
the property in question will be officially signed over in the next two weeks - i've seen the architectural plans and i think they will improve the row
na a first time arrival floom
but you can generally tell these things from visiting an area
also
i read somewhere that they were planning to extend the tube to this area
any developments on that?
just to let you know we put in one planning permission for our property which was asked to amended for a few *simple* reasons so we've withdrawn it temporarily.
is there a business team on the local council at all to help with any pitfalls etc?
but you can generally tell these things from visiting an area
also
i read somewhere that they were planning to extend the tube to this area
any developments on that?
just to let you know we put in one planning permission for our property which was asked to amended for a few *simple* reasons so we've withdrawn it temporarily.
is there a business team on the local council at all to help with any pitfalls etc?
Mani i can shed some light on the Tube thingey for you...
The East London Line extension is currently under construction.
The ELL used to be part of the Tube network, but when it reopens it will become part of the London Overground system, basically a rail line run by Transport for London.
The new line will extend south from the old ELL terminus at New Cross Gate along tracks where Southern Railway currently operate services - through Brockley, Honor Oak Park, Forest Hill and Sydenham, continuing on one branch to Crystal Palace and on the other to Penge West, Anerley, Norwood Junction and West Croydon.
It's due to open next year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_london_line
The East London Line extension is currently under construction.
The ELL used to be part of the Tube network, but when it reopens it will become part of the London Overground system, basically a rail line run by Transport for London.
The new line will extend south from the old ELL terminus at New Cross Gate along tracks where Southern Railway currently operate services - through Brockley, Honor Oak Park, Forest Hill and Sydenham, continuing on one branch to Crystal Palace and on the other to Penge West, Anerley, Norwood Junction and West Croydon.
It's due to open next year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_london_line
Hi Mani,
Most of the underground isn't undeground, so don't let the fact that the East London Line extention is 'open air' make you think it's any less valid than an underground service. The East London Line actually pre-dates the London Underground an will make a big difference. The big question is how many people will get out at a particular station because somewhere is a destination rather just a name on a platform you see out of the train window.
Sydenham has a tube station very close to the heart of the shopping area. Penge station is a bit of a march to the shops.
What type of shop are you thinking of opening. There is lots of feedback on this forum about what people actually want, which isn't what we actually have.
I'd steer clear of hairdressers, pound shops, cheap cafes, cheap pound style shops, nail bars etc. These are more than catered for (and one or two do it very well).
Find a nice, something that's missing, make it presentable and do it well. Unfortunately, despite a few shining gems in Sydenham high street, lots of store owners seems hell bent on making their businesses as unpresentable as possible.
The advantage Sydenham has over Penge for small shop holders is that it could become a destination for people searching for something different. Penge is a place I pass through when I'm on my way to Bromley. It has a lot of fairly large properties, some of which are empty (like Woolworths). Sydenham has it's fair share of empty properties, but they are much smaller units, ripe for development by smaller, more nice and enterprising businesses.
I wish you luck and a very prosperous 2009.
Most of the underground isn't undeground, so don't let the fact that the East London Line extention is 'open air' make you think it's any less valid than an underground service. The East London Line actually pre-dates the London Underground an will make a big difference. The big question is how many people will get out at a particular station because somewhere is a destination rather just a name on a platform you see out of the train window.
Sydenham has a tube station very close to the heart of the shopping area. Penge station is a bit of a march to the shops.
What type of shop are you thinking of opening. There is lots of feedback on this forum about what people actually want, which isn't what we actually have.
I'd steer clear of hairdressers, pound shops, cheap cafes, cheap pound style shops, nail bars etc. These are more than catered for (and one or two do it very well).
Find a nice, something that's missing, make it presentable and do it well. Unfortunately, despite a few shining gems in Sydenham high street, lots of store owners seems hell bent on making their businesses as unpresentable as possible.
The advantage Sydenham has over Penge for small shop holders is that it could become a destination for people searching for something different. Penge is a place I pass through when I'm on my way to Bromley. It has a lot of fairly large properties, some of which are empty (like Woolworths). Sydenham has it's fair share of empty properties, but they are much smaller units, ripe for development by smaller, more nice and enterprising businesses.
I wish you luck and a very prosperous 2009.
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Bovine Juice
- Posts: 266
- Joined: 14 Oct 2007 11:35
- Location: Penge
You could just as easily argue that with Sainsburys, Lidl, Wilkinsons and now a large 99p shop Penge's more compact shopping area has far more reasons to go to it than the sprawl of unattractive small shops that Sydenham offers. Just a thought.
(Sydenham has better pubs, cafes and restaurants though)
(Sydenham has better pubs, cafes and restaurants though)