Closure of London Bridge (upper station) in 2015

[michael]

Back in 2010 we lost our direct connection to Charing Cross, admittedly only at evenings and weekends. These days many people change trains at London Bridge to continue on to Waterloo and Charing Cross.

In 2015/6, as part of the 'improvement works' at London Bridge station, Network Rail plan to have all trains to/from Waterloo East and Charing Cross running through London Bridge without stopping.

Southern trains will continue to terminate at London Bridge with the interchange option for the Northern and Jubilee Line and Canon Street trains, but not Waterloo or Charing X.

My job is currently based in Waterloo, so the easy change at London Bridge is excellent for me and significantly cheaper than using the underground to get to work (even though it would be quicker). I suspect that many people like me will need to switch from Southern trains to East London Line to get to work.

I'm interested to find out how this will impact other people who currently travel on the London Bridge to Charing Cross service. Will there be another big shift from Southern to ELL, and can the four carriage trains handle the extra demand?

[Rachael]

I regularly go to Charing Cross via London Bridge if I am heading for Covent Garden, or Haymarket, Piccadilly, the Strand, Aldwych, Kingsway, Fleet Street - basically anywhere within 10-15 minutes walk of Charing Cross. Mostly at off-peak times - mid-morning or evenings. On occasions when I have just missed a London Bridge train, I've taken the Overground to Whitechapel and then the Circle and District back down to Embankment. It takes longer that way, for sure, but in the past that has been offset by the time I would have had to wait for the next LB train. I for one would definitely miss the Charing Cross connection.

Many people use that connection in both directions to get trains to and from London Bridge, so it won't just be our line that's affected. That 'short cut' from Charing Cross to London Bridge is hugely useful and hard to replicate on the Tube as they are on different branches of the Northern. Plus schlepping down to the Underground platforms takes much longer than hopping on a train at street level.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[Robin Orton]

Michael, could you clarify whether this removal of the London Bridge/Waterloo East/Charing Cross service is planned to be permanent, or just while the 'improvement works' are actually being done?

[michael]

Temporary. In 2016/17 there will be the Charing Cross service but no Canon Street service. And then in 2019 everything will work including the additional Thameslink services.

[JulietP]

Has anyone thought of the additional strain on the Jubilee line this will cause? It's packed enough already!

[Rachael]

But would you get the Jubilee or use the Overground instead, as I do? It's not like the Jubilee goes through Charing Cross anymore, or anywhere near it.

If I had to come into London Bridge and wanted the Charing Cross area, I would get the Northern back down to the Elephant then swap to the Bakerloo. Seems mad but it's quite quick and less squashed than any Choob going north from LB.

[bensonby]

I've not done a huge amount of research on the London Bridge changes but every little snippet I hear does sound like they are buggering the place up.

But may I point out, for the sake of completeness, that a perfectly acceptable and easy way to get from Sydenham to Charing Cross is to go from Lower Sydenham station: a fact that often seems to get neglected on this website.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[Rachael]

Not that easy if you live in Kirkdale...

[Voyageur]

I've not done a huge amount of research on the London Bridge changes but every little snippet I hear does sound like they are buggering the place up.

But may I point out, for the sake of completeness, that a perfectly acceptable and easy way to get from Sydenham to Charing Cross is to go from Lower Sydenham station: a fact that often seems to get neglected on this website.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

I guess it helps if you leave near Lower Sydenham station.

[alywin]

But may I point out, for the sake of completeness, that a perfectly acceptable and easy way to get from Sydenham to Charing Cross is to go from Lower Sydenham station: a fact that often seems to get neglected on this website.

Yes, and the Hayes line is already quite crowded enough without loads of the Sydenham commuters getting on it as well! Plus not everyone may be too comfortable with the walk to Lower Sydenham after dark.

I was wondering, what's the distance between New Cross and New Cross Gate? Would getting the ELL up to NXG and then walking to NX and picking up Charing Cross trains there be an option?

What nobody seems to have mentioned so far is the potential cost impact of all this: currently, if you have a rail season from Sydenham to Charing Cross, I guess that'll cost you about 2/3 of what it will cost to get a Travelcard season for the same journey. Or are we to assume that London Underground is going to pass however many thousand commuters at no additional cost? (And how will the underground system cope?) And what about Oyster PAYG people? Currently it costs me £3.50 from Zone 4 to get to Charing Cross during peak periods, and I think £2.40 off-peak: if I have to add a tube journey to that, it will become £4.70 and £3.60 respectively, and I shall have to get a day Travelcard every time I come up to London (or get the 176).

[Rachael]

It takes about five minutes to walk between New Cross and New Cross Gate, which Mr D discovered when he accidently got a New Cross train. I wonder, however, what impact that has on cost, if you have to touch out and in again with your Oyster? Fine if you are on a Travelcard but not (I assume) if you just want to pay the price of the train journey as it probably counts as two separate journeys.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[JulietP]

But would you get the Jubilee or use the Overground instead, as I do? It's not like the Jubilee goes through Charing Cross anymore, or anywhere near it.

If I had to come into London Bridge and wanted the Charing Cross area, I would get the Northern back down to the Elephant then swap to the Bakerloo. Seems mad but it's quite quick and less squashed than any Choob going north from LB.

Well, yes. I think it's fair to assume that anyone who changes at London Bridge to go to Waterloo East would just use the Jubilee line instead to Southwark or Waterloo. And Westminster is only 5-10 minutes walk from Charing Cross. I work near Westminster tube and often go into Charing Cross instead when I stay at my boyfriend's (whose train goes into Charing X).

[Rachael]

True. As any Londoner knows, there's more than one way to skin a cat, and at least half a dozen ways to get to where you are going.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[JRobinson]

you could take the RV10 along the river bank, or a bus from NX along the Old Kent Road, or carry on on the Lorol to Surrey Quays, back to NXG, then to CharringX, go to Lower Sydenham, and get a train (from zone 4) direct, or as MrR does, a 75 bus to Catford, and then a train from there. a train the other way to Balham and then the northern line up, or 188 bus from Canada Water?

lots of options, some considerably better than others, depends if you want cheaper, or quicker, or a better view, or something else?

you could just cycle!

[Eagle]

Are we talking about 2015 if so why get worried about it.

Who knows who what the world will be like in 3 years time.

[alywin]

True. As any Londoner knows, there's more than one way to skin a cat, and at least half a dozen ways to get to where you are going.

Most of them costing rather more - and probably taking longer - than the original route, though, I suspect.