High Streets and Markets

[leenewham]

http://brockleycentral.blogspot.com/201 ... arket.html

Mary Portas thinks they are a good idea, it was a key part of her recent' proposals for High Streets. So does Brockley. Their market attracted 1500 shoppers every week. It also won Brockley Centrals 'best newcomer award' in a recent poll. It's well run and sells quality products rather than being the Del Boy end of independent traders.

In other areas markets have been used like business incubators where low business rents and rates have been offered for market stall holders who want to move into an empty shop in the high street. They enable people to try out their ideas. It worked for Innocent smoothies, Marks and Spencer, Tesco and Matalan (they all started on a market stall). I'm working with some small businesses who sell wares at Market Stalls and are doing rather well (anyone see 'Breaking into Tesco' on Channel 5? That's what the winner did after Tesco shafted him).

To survive, markets need to be large enough (the pocket parks are too small), diverse enough and exciting enough to survive. Maple roads effort in Penge always left a lot to be desired, was too small and not visible from the road and seemed to have too much repetition of stalls.

Look at what the Feasts have done for West Norwood.

Would you use a market in Sydenham?
Where would it be (near the high street is preferable to help other traders).
What about an indoor market (the old sorting office or perhaps even the two halfs?).
What would you like to see in the market?
Have there been any attempts at a market in Sydenham before (I know of one)?

Thoughts? …and lets see if we can keep this upbeat rather than thinking of reasons why it can't, shouldn't or wont happen! It's a new year after all!

[JulietP]

I agree completely with this. Food markets in particular are very popular - look at the success of Brixton Village on Atlantic Road. The secret is low rents, limited menus and great, reasonably priced food.

Agree that you need a certain size to make it viable. But it could be just the trick for Sydenham -providing a reason to visit and browse, and it would also give other local shops and coffee places a boost.

How to make it happen, though?

[Chris Best]

As Chair of the Sydenham Town Centre Steering Group I have led a bid for the Outer London Mayor's Fund for £70k. This is to help develop the Traders Association, improve signage and set up a street market in Station Approach once the improvement works are complete.

From the last Sydenham Assembly I am working with Sydenham Community Radio to arrange a pilot Sunday morning market/boot in the rear of Girton Road car park.

Interested in comments - I can recall a farmers market in Sydenham Wells Park and a "french" market in the old car park at The Greyhound - I have a number of people interested in taking part in a craft market.

[Tim Lund]

How can businesses join the Traders Association - and is there a way any member of the community can be involved with the Sydenham Town Centre Steering Group?

[Tim Lund]

As Chair of the Sydenham Town Centre Steering Group I have led a bid for the Outer London Mayor's Fund for £70k. This is to help develop the Traders Association, improve signage and set up a street market in Station Approach once the improvement works are complete.

All I can find about the Outer London Fund on the Lewisham web site is this about Catford with naery a mention of Sydenham - although if you look on the fourth of the five slides here "Catford Town Centre is Changing" you will find unacknowledged images of Lee's What Ifs for Sydenham Road.

Uncharacteristicly reticent, I think. Are you perhaps getting a little confused here, Chris?

[Eagle]

I always thought that LBL was inner London ??

[leenewham]

Great news Chris. It would definitely be worth speaking to Spacemakers Agency who were behind the West Norwood feast and the Brixton Market and are now working with the traders association in Muswell Hill. At the very least they may be able to give some pointers and advice. They are nice people and good at what they do. It may be worth bending the ear of the likes of Greenwich market or speaking to other boroughs that have run successful markets. I've found the local authorities that work with others such as Ealing have been very helpful.

Tim, I'm working with Lewisham on Catford, I allowed them to use the images for some boards for a presentation a while ago which are now part of the pdf. I should have insisted on a credit for the work as BDP have one for their part in we did that they used.

Eagle, you are correct. Lewisham and Sydenham are Inner London. The Outer London Fund is confusingly named (we suggested a name change when we worked on the prospectus and branding). Sydenham didn't put in a bid for round one because of the name, although I did say that they could. The Outer London Fund was open to pretty much any borough in London who wanted to improve their high streets, not just official 'Outer London' Boroughs.

[Pat Trembath]

Included in the autumn edition of the Sydenham Society News was a colour double-page centre-spread providing the lay-out of the proposals for Sydenham High street, including Station Approach, which will have:

A new pedestrian plaza constructed in York Stone, with a central tree, planters around the edge and bench seating
Space for market stalls (with electric hook up points)
5 parking spaces for pick-up/drop off and one disabled space
Secure cycle parking near the station

The Sydenham Assembly newsletter borrowed and reproduced the Sydenham Society's graphic lay-out and was delivered through every door in Sydenham Ward.

With Station Approach on one side of the road and a pocket park at the end of Venner Road, also with electric hook up points for market stalls and a light controlled pedestrian crossing between the two, Lee's question about where market stalls could be accommodated has been considered within the new Pedestrian Improvement Scheme.

What is frustrating is the delay to the start of the improvements due to bureaucrats at Network Rail. If the plans had run to schedule the Station Approach part of the scheme would have been well on the way to completion by now

[Eagle]

Very impressive and will certainly be an improvement on Jimmy Small's Dancing Centre.
Trust they are going to re open the conveniences

I do hope the area when finished will not be the new home for the street drinkers.

[Annie]

This all sounds very positive,I can't wait till it all begins.( my new positive outlook on life!)

[leenewham]

I remember the Sydsoc article in the newsletter (I don't remember the Assembly one though) but I don't recall any talk of how many market stalls there would be outside of Station Approach. Ideally it would be more than a few stalls to make it a destination.

As I said earlier, for a market to be a success it needs to be a reasonable size and properly controlled with properly controlled stalls. Themes are good as Cllr Best talked about the French Market in the Greyhound (before my time).

Is there any more info on how it will work, be controlled, where the stalls are stored, how many, if they are permanent or will there just be hook up points for people to bring their own stall with them?

So talking of themes, what would we like to see in a market?

[KateGould]

Hi - could you give me a call about this - would be good to do something for the South London Press. 020 8710 6478
thanks

[angela53]

"What is frustrating is the delay to the start of the improvements due to bureaucrats at Network Rail. If the plans had run to schedule the Station Approach part of the scheme would have been well on the way to completion by now"

Does anyone have any idea when the work is likely to start? Is there a way we can apply some pressure?

Regretfully I don`t have a very good feeling about this.

[Tim Lund]

I remember the Sydsoc article in the newsletter (I don't remember the Assembly one though) but I don't recall any talk of how many market stalls there would be outside of Station Approach. Ideally it would be more than a few stalls to make it a destination.

As I said earlier, for a market to be a success it needs to be a reasonable size and properly controlled with properly controlled stalls. Themes are good as Cllr Best talked about the French Market in the Greyhound (before my time).

Is there any more info on how it will work, be controlled, where the stalls are stored, how many, if they are permanent or will there just be hook up points for people to bring their own stall with them?

So talking of themes, what would we like to see in a market?

I think it'll be worth knowing how the stalls are going to be licenced, by which department, and according to what criteria. I suspect the default approach will be to hand this over to Lewisham's Market Services. Will there be pitch licences be for every day of the week, or could there be separate licences for specific days, e.g. Saturday & Sundays? Also - who will they be marketing to, and what resources will they have to put into the marketing? If it will ultimately be their responsibility, whatever ideas we have here will need to taken on board by them.

The Council will also have a duty to get the best price for pitches, so any themes we suggest here will have to help raise revenue rather than be a way of supporting our particular enthusiasms. That said, I would like to suggest a theme - a weekend arts market. I think the Sydenham Arts Festival has shown how many artists we have round here, and I think we could become a place where at the weekends people come to buy, either arriving on the Overground, or driving in from further out. We could also get artists coming in from other part of London - e.g. Hackney - to sell work. I don't think it could last the whole week, which is why I'd like to see the slots segmented by day of the week.

Maybe the best way to manage the licencing would be a single 'market manager' franchise to licence on ALL stalls for say two years, in which ever way the franchisee wanted, subject to some initial terms and conditions. It would be a matter of whether such a market manager could be found who's be better able to generate long term revenues that probably hard pressed Council staff. On the other hand, the current staff in market services could be exactly the sort of experienced professionals needed for this - I don't know, and I don't think the possibility should be over looked.

[poppy]

It seems all investment in Sydenham has been put on hold because of the Tfl project which has been at least five years in the making!

We shouldn't underestimate the impact of difficult and dangerous crossings, battered railings and sign posts, a lack of trees and quality planting on attracting people to shop in the high street. All these things are extremely off-putting and make the place look so neglected.

After visiting north London this xmas for the first time in ages it unfortunately gave me a sad reminder of how gloomy and unloved our high street looks and feels.

Sort these things out and good businesses 'will' invest here and local people and those from further afield will return...